Messages

1

Irish Air Corps / No more SAR -

« on: January 05, 2004, 03:04:13 pm »

Hello Peeps....

Guess we're going to disagree on that article then!
Ho-Hum...nothing new there then!
I accept that times have changed in 40 years....but operating single engine over the water, without liferafts, running out of fuel, mixing your own, atrocious radio, basic equipment!!?? Staggering acheivements....scarey too! That this was published in a National paper with pride disturbs me! I don't know how anyone can be proud of running out of fuel.
So...are we surprised that the AC lost Sligo? If you were surprised you need to get your head out of the sand! Those of us in the real world weren't surprised.
Why did the AC lose Shannon? (Lost to the civvies who won a 1year 'interim' contract! Back in 1991!!!)  Why did they lose Dublin? (Perhaps because the AC would only supply daylight only!) Why did they lose Waterford? The answer is fairly simple....they were badly mismanaged, poorly funded....& refused point blank to learn from their mistakes. They maintained a last bastion in Finner. Alas the machines they used were not really up to scratch as SAR machines. So they were thrown a lifeline....a fully fitted SAR S-61. They didn't even have to maintain it themselves. Alas....having learnt nothing in the world of CRM & man management the AC blew that too!
The Blue Flu was caused by unsafe working practices, poor CRM & old, poorly maintained safety equipment. ie Life Jackets. The civvy operator provided up to speck, fully serviced Mk44 Life Jackets (which are technically aircraft fit) but the AC opted to use it's own out of date LifeJackets & harnesses. As for their working practices....who can say...the mind boggles & thank god there haven't been any further tragedies!
So...while you all sit there & blame the government, the civvies & your own winch crews....why not look at it a bit closer....why not investigate the idiots responsible for the tragedy in Waterford & the desperate mismanagement of their staff & resources in Sligo.
Face it....the civvies do it better....most european countries are going down the civvy road.....& having seen the way things are in your AC, I'd suggest you take a moment & wonder if perhaps there isn't a lesson to be learnt here!

Happy 2004!

2

Irish Air Corps / AIR CORPS SAR TO END !

« on: December 18, 2003, 01:52:05 pm »

Hi there....new to the board....but had to say.....

Sorry to hear about the demise of Air Corps SAR.....

So, to answer a point raised by 'n-e-foo'. Can the aircraft be re-roled? No. The aircraft was leased to the Air Corps on the understanding that it was only to be used for Coastguard Tasking.
Having observed the magnificant mismanagement of the Air Corps attempt to use it, do you really think that CHC are going to now allow the Air Corps to completely destroy a very good SAR asset by stripping it out & planting it in various fields??? I think not!
The equipment on board the Aircraft....formerly SK 257....soon to be back as she should be as EI-CXS.....is as good as it gets. No-one is going to let the Air corps rip it apart! Get Real!
What has happened is a tragedy for the Air Corps....I only hope an internal investigation strings up those responsible for the whole embarrassing affair. (Hark the sound of knocking rings!)
I wish you all the best with your utility helo's, (I hear second hand 206's are quite cheap -bit below the belt!!!)  . Long live the red & white of CHC, & let's get the service in place that the people of the state deserve.

Now....that's how to make your first post  '>

3

Irish Air Corps / AIR CORPS SAR TO END !

« on: December 23, 2003, 10:37:24 pm »

Imshi-Yallah
Hmmm.....is agreeing with Fianna Fail so disagreable because he/she doesn't always vote Air Corps? & Does that fact instantly make his/her comments something to disregard off hand?? I think not....the fact that you instantly suggest it is troubles me....perhaps it is your posts which should be classed as having no realistic basis??
Now...back to topic. If the Air corps was so desperate to keep SAR, why did they allow the Sligo Fiasco to occur? Why did the Air corps allow the same people to mismanage another very public enterprise? Why with some 900 personnel couldn't they manage to run one helicopter, which they didn't even have to provide maintenance for? Your officer Corps is circa British Army 1860. Those days have gone! The military around the world are turning to 'civvies' to run various operations for them! Why? Because the civvies do it more cost effectively & better! There are some jobs civvy regulations won't allow them to do....step in the military. Facts are facts....the Air Corps management were handed a SAR lifeline & through staggering arrogance blew it!
You mention the public....how can you expect the general public to vote Air Corps when the Air Corps has failed to provide!? They don't care who operates the machine...they just care that it turns up when they need it!

Guinness......Merry Christmas!

4

Irish Air Corps / AIR CORPS SAR TO END !

« on: December 18, 2003, 08:44:56 pm »

Silver..Agreed the need for CHC to stock up on application forms....however I'd also suggest they need to be a little selective in their recruitment....I'd refer you to all the complaints regarding mismanagement in the Air Corps! (No bubble gum rings please!   '> )

n-e-foo....um...er....compare a S-61 to a Seaking in the troop role?? Bizarre you think there can be no comparision!! Let me see....the S-61 is bigger inside & will carry more....it has a cargo door on the starboard side...which is similar in dimensions to the Seaking's!! & the air-stair door is also on the starboard side & far more accesible than the Seaking's which is on the port side!! Um....er....methinks you may not actually know as much as you'd wish us to believe!

I understand that CHC would operate Light Utility for the AC at a lovely rate!  '>

Oh....& a direct quote for you from a recently retired AC member I know....& I quote
'heheheheheheheheheeheeeheheheheheheheheheheehehehehehehehehehehe, hohohohohhohohohohohohhohohohohohohohohohohhohoho,hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahhahahahahhahahahaahahah!' Is that a C&S I see coming over the horizon!

5

Irish Air Corps / AIR CORPS SAR TO END !

« on: December 22, 2003, 08:17:28 am »

Hello Guinness...'Pal'

Firstly....where did anyone on this board ever suggest that Combat SAR was anything other than a military role? When did anyone suggest that the Irish Coastguard should assume responsibility for downed military pilots around the world?? Unless I've missed the point here we've been discussing SAR that falls within the remit of the Irish Coastguard....that means SAR not Combat SAR! & Let's be frank....the Air Corp have completely messed up SAR! There's no point in trying to argue....they have!
Now the Government haven't been the best in terms of providing machines etc. But oppurtunities have been given to the Air Corps to remain in SAR & they blew it! They blew it big! The Civvies do it better.....be a man, stand up & admit it! Everyone knows it....it's well proven, documented & fact! Or didn't the Air Corps lose all it's SAR bases to the Civvies??? Um....Er....I think they did!!
Now....onto to combat SAR. At present aren't the Irish Military deployments in various theatre's of operation around the world, being flown around by heli crews from other nations?? Or do they have Irish Helicopters in theatre? Um...I reckon they're being flown by other Nations. Who, therefore, will be providing CSAR cover!? Which kind of negates your point...don't you think?
Now....supposing in the future the Irish defence Forces do detach with integral Helicopter support & one unfortunately goes down.....I agree absolutely that the CSAR role should be fulfilled by the military. However, I still perceive the combat SAR being provided by the United Nations forces that the Irish Defence Forces are attached to, rather than by themselves.
Do CSAR aircraft require the same level of equipment as a Coastguard SAR machine does? No...not in the SAR sense of the word as their primary role is extraction, get the guys the hell out of there!!!!!! As such, General Purpose machines & crews are fit for task.
The Air Corps should be supported by the Governement. But I would suggest that in order to survive this latest fiasco it needs to take a long hard look at it's structure & make a few changes! The most recent two failures in SAR can be accounted to the same hierachy.....there seems to be a pattern forming!
The Air Corps has lost face. It's lost face because those in a position of authority have consistently refused to accept responsibility for their failings & have instead abused their positions & abused their authority.
I hope you get your Utility Machines, but I'd suggest that they too will be mismanaged until a proper internal investigation is run into the real reasons that so many Air Corps projects fail.
One final question....if the Air Corps is so good....why are so many of their pilots & winch crews now working for civilian companies??

Merry Christmas 'Pal'

& Scorpy....I couldn't agree more! Happy Christmas!

6

Irish Air Corps / AIR CORPS SAR TO END !

« on: December 18, 2003, 08:21:27 pm »

dear mr fmolloy . calm down. never loose your sense of humour. god knows the sligo operation has supplied us all with a bit of a laugh. but on a serious note it was stopped before some one got killed, and thats not an overaction. what i want to know is what will happen to all the 61 trained personnel. will they be welcomed back to the don with open arms .dont think so. how much is a removal van from sligo to dublin.?      I admit this is a bit childish but......hehehehehehehehehe,hahahahahahahah,hohohohohohohohohohohho................... my god i almost wet myself  '>

7

Irish Air Corps / AIR CORPS SAR TO END !

« on: December 24, 2003, 12:21:48 am »

Hmmm....so to sum up! You agree that the Air Corps management needs looking at. You agree that the Sligo operation is 'Safer' in Civil hands & to cap it all you're waving a veiled threat under my nose!? Absolute bargain!! I look forward to the reaping! (oooooh & apparently I'm hostile!?)

Deficit of equipment?? Um....the equipment in use was identical, & in some cases superior, to that used by the civilian run bases.......I believe the safety concerns were in the way the operation was run at the front of the machine, not in the equipment!!!?
High turnover of staff?? I can't imagine why...........

Oh & my 'high & mighty' tone IS fact!  
But then you'd recognise the tone....wouldn't you!

As for apparent angry replies.....maybe I type badly....I've no reason to be angry....quite the opposite, I'm delighted!

Civil discussion or trading insults.....up to you!?

8

Irish Air Corps / AIR CORPS SAR TO END !

« on: December 19, 2003, 10:23:15 am »

totally agree with fianna fail. its time for the air corp to start getting serious about the military role . but before all that utility stuff, lets have ourselves a fair trial followed by a first class hanging. in the dock this week has to be the middle and senior management of heli sqn. a lesson to everyone in how not to run a sar operation and  in disgusting man management. followed by next week in the dock judus the winch op. who sold out for four over nights and a pint with the management in a south side pub. and finally the geriatric fusiliers who were wheeled out of the hangar on the promise of a new colostomy bag. you know who you are.

on a  serious note all of the above are guility of a serious breach of flight safety. they all should have known better and thankfully the plug was pulled before anyone was hurt or killed.    '>

9

Irish Air Corps / AIR CORPS SAR TO END !

« on: December 18, 2003, 05:54:15 pm »

ha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe.hohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohoh
ohohohohohohohohohohohohohoho............O dear I think my sides have split.  '>