Willie O' Dea, Read This

[Hess]

Quote (GoneToTheCanner @ 06 Nov. 2005,04:03)

Hi all You can have Baldonnel as a civvie airport when you: Build a complete new pax terminal. upgrade the runways. Add two ILSs Add a modern radar/SSR Expand the size of the ramp. Provide suitable ground servicing vehicles. Build a hangar capable of holding a B737-800 (fully-enclosed). Build access to the airfield on the South side. Get rid of all external holds on the land, such as grass-cutting contracts, tithes,ground rent,etc. A modern ATC tower. A proper peri track and decent fencing. Oh, yeah, sell the idea of jet traffic circulating at low-level over the Southside of Dublin.   '> Did I forget anything? regards GttC

Sell the Bal to O'Leary et al. Move the air corps to Shannon. I mean the Bal is already covered by the RAF anyway!!! Every faculty you listed is in Shannon already. Makes sense.
And as for the residents of south Dublin, when you live in a 'city' you just have to put up with aircraft noise.

[Fouga]

The Runways have been upgraded.

[Buran]

On the idea of a 737QC for MATS.
It will never happen because:
1) Dual role
the whole idea of a government jet (or any corporate jet for that matter) is that it is available when you need it (dodgy maintenance aside). So when you compare costs, you dont compare airline fares to fuel/crew costs of a corporate jet, you compare the cost of the time lost in having the CEO of a company tied up in the airline system for hours.
So, do you think bertie will wait for his plane to free up from a military airlift?
And of course, the reverse is true. This bboard has put a high priority on the aer corps having its own airlift capability. Will/should they wait several days for the plane to come back from the states on a MATS trip?
2) Quick Change
Anyone familiar with any quick change aircraft will know, loading/unloading different pallets just means the pallets and the aircraft get wrecked over time. I dont mean unserviceable, just shabby. Given the idea of a MATS aircraft is largly for the head of state, or taoiseach, i for one would be happy to have my taxes spent to have a dedicated aircraft that can be kept in good presentation for this purpose.
The C-40s are usually only used for lower ranking people/senior military people. I would doubt if any other country with a head of state type aircraft use a quick change option.
3) Airfields
Leaving aside the (not likely to happen in my view) idea of overseas deployments, the airlift capability should primarily be aimed at domestic duties. How many airfields in the country other than bal, can take a 737? ~5? Does that mean the Aer Corps should limit its airlift operations to the vicinity of those airports? I assume there should be a short field performance criteria for any airlifter. (i know you mentioned getting the 737 with a cn295, but i think thats just twice as unlikely to happen as either option)
4) ...

[Old Redeye]

Excellent points Buran.  If I was a betting man I'd say the most likely MATS/airlift combination - provided the government ever gets that far - is a Bombardier Global 5000 and a C-295 or a CN-235-300 procured in conjunction with the mid-life upgrade in Spain of the 235MPA's to 300 standard.

[pilatus]

the 737 would not work if being used as a transport as aircraft like that are normally used to supplement ramped eqquiped aircraft!the air corps didnt have too many of them last time i checked!they would would need something c130 class as it could move APCs and other heavy stuff like not and dont say anybody that 737 could do that because i would pay to see a mowag stuck on an oversized pallet and attempted to be squashed into a 737!

[pym]

Quote (pilatus @ 07 Nov. 2005,07:05)

the 737 would not work if being used as a transport as aircraft like that are normally used to supplement ramped eqquiped aircraft!the air corps didnt have too many of them last time i checked!they would would need something c130 class as it could move APCs and other heavy stuff like not and dont say anybody that 737 could do that because i would pay to see a mowag stuck on an oversized pallet and attempted to be squashed into a 737!

Obviously the Boeing would be used solely to ferry troops and their arms in and out, while leaving the transport of APC's to UN chartered Antonovs etc.  This would give the Army the ability to deploy and evacuate troops quickly and independently.

But personally I dont like the idea of just having one of any transport aircraft, because if it suffers an accident/fault - instantly your entire capability is gone.

If we are serious about an overseas commitment which the Air Corps could contribute to, then I'd like 2x C-130J - but I just cannot see it happening. More realistic, but still beyond our wildest dreams would be 2xCN-295. Perfect.

[Old Redeye]

Don't discount the cargo capacity of the B737-700C/QC -- 8x pallets = for planning purposes some 9000 KG (C-295 equivalent) over 5400km's.  Granted, significantly less than a C-130J-30, but also significantly less to purchase, maintain and operate.  

As for a ramp capability, that's why I suggested a 737 in conjunction with a CN-235 or C-295.  Granted, these too have limited payload and range versus a C-130J-30, but in the end cost is the elephant in the room.  

Look back a few posts and find my cost comparison of the three options.  In the end it's a trade-off between cost and capability.

[Old Redeye]

Romania to replace MiG-21 fleet with new jet fighter
Radu Tudor JDW Correspondent
Bucharest

Romanian Chief of General Staff General Eugen Badalan announced on 1 November the timetable to start the procurement of a new fighter aircraft for the Romanian Air Force.

"The Romanian Ministry of Defence has started consultation in order to replace its MiG-21 fighter jet in the future," Gen Badalan said.

"We need a new multirole fighter in the medium term."

He added that the air force would probably reduce the number of fighters from the present 100 to 48.

"According to the calculations we have made so far, this is what Romania needs. We've formulated our operational demands for the multirole aircraft.

"Which aircraft that would be, we'll see, having gone through the legal procedures," Gen Badalan said.

The general also suggested 2008 to 2015 as the purchase period for the aircraft.

He denied reports that Romania was in negotiations with Israel to purchase second-hand F-16As from the Israeli fleet.

Romania to withdraw Lancers by 2010 (jdw.janes.com, 23/07/04)

[Old Redeye]

See story below from Janes.  

Point is that New Zealand is paying $US28 million each to convert their B757's into combi's with capabilities equal to the B737-700C/QC.  This pretty much puts paid to the GOC's musing about obtaining a second-hand A320, which would run in the area of $US30-40 million to buy + another $US20 million to convert to a combi, bearing in mind the engineering hurdles (= additional costs) in that no A320's have yet been converted to freighters, let alone combi's.  Further, without placing additional tanks in the lower hold, an A320 would not have enough range to be useful. Finally, a pax only A320 is only capable of satisfying the MATS requirement and the infrequent personnel deployment requirment for international missions - leaving the cargo/airlift requirment unaddressed.  A new 737QC would run about $US 52 million.


New Zealand's Boeing 757s to undergo modifications
PHILLP McKINNON JDW Correspondent
Auckland

The Royal New Zealand Air Force's two Boeing 757s are to be modified to a combination freight/passenger configuration under a NZD81.8 million (USD55.8 million) contract.

Modifications will include the installation of a freight door in the main cabin, associated strengthening of the floor and door surrounds, a cargo handling system, medical evacuation capability, increased engine thrust and an upgrade of the communications and navigation systems.

The first aircraft is due to enter the programme in the fourth quarter of 2006 and return to service in the second quarter of 2007, with work on the second aircraft to be completed in the third quarter of 2007.

Mobile Aerospace Technologies in Mobile, Alabama, and Boeing's Integrated Defence Systems and Commercial Airplane Services divisions will undertake the work.

[Hess]

We are joining in "Partnership for Peace", so that implies we will be putting the men and women of our defense forces in areas that they don't print holiday brochures for anymore. If we send them, we sure as hell better make sure we can get them out!
The cost of a couple of C130Js pales into insignificance with what might happen to our defense force personnel if they were left to rely on an already overstretched (foreign) air deployment, i.e. history (-> Katanga).
Can ye stop talking about the fecking cost (angels dancing on a pin head). We have the money!
Minister Willie O'Dea,
before we send our DFP to hot spots can they at least know that they will be serviced and supplied by the IAC and if/when the s**t hits the fan evac-ed by the IAC?

PS: Just to keep it on the thread, here's the word 'Romania'.

[pilatus]

Quote (Hess @ 08 Nov. 2005,12:30)

We are joining in "Partnership for Peace", so that implies we will be putting the men and women of our defense forces in areas that they don't print holiday brochures for anymore. If we send them, we sure as hell better make sure we can get them out! The cost of a couple of C130Js pales into insignificance with what might happen to our defense force personnel if they were left to rely on an already overstretched (foreign) air deployment, i.e. history (-> Katanga). Can ye stop talking about the fecking cost (angels dancing on a pin head). We have the money! Minister Willie O'Dea, before we send our DFP to hot spots can they at least know that they will be serviced and supplied by the IAC and if/when the s**t hits the fan evac-ed by the IAC? PS: Just to keep it on the thread, here's the word 'Romania'.

Hess theres no point stop saying about cost because thats what it boils down to you i and every other member on this board knows it!the government have the money but they dont want to spend it for whatever reasons they have!they will come up with some excuse like theres another pothole on that feckin road and tar and gravel isnt cheap these days oh no you better believe it!plus the cost of building new hangars extending the runways etc would be huge possibly even a new airbase would have to be built to accomadate any new aircraft!  

i know who cares about cost at the end of the day as long as our boys in green are safe!well the answer is the government thats whoif they could save 100million euro and pump it into schools and hospitals(not saying thats a bad thing!we do need health care and education for the country)just so they can look good at the next elections rather than buying some decent aircraft which in their view will never be needed because they say will never get in those sort of situations in the first place!
im not disagreeing with you im just saying that is how it is and that is how in my view it will be for a long time to come!

oh romania f16s wow!