Some things never change ...

[202]

Anybody see the article and pics in Saturday's Irish Independent Review in which the reporter accompanied Mr. Ahern on an IAC EC 135 on a constituency visit to Leitrim?

Great to know that fifty percent of our Air Corps' modern helicopter fleet is tied up transporting the Taoiseach around to far flung cumann meetings ...

[papa 242]

Happy memories 202!!!
Spending an hour briefing for a training sortie and then walking out to see your a/c dissappearing over the boundary to bring some minister home....60s...70s...80s...90s...00s...
it will never change!!!    

[SousaTeuszii]

Hi Guys,
Of course it will change.
No 3 is going down the military route. The Army are already marking the territory with last Sundays Irish Indo Article and will require the machines to be on standby to them and not fluting around the country with ministers.

Imagine if the aircraft were taken off SAR for ministers....... oh thats right they were in the past

Imagine if Maritime patrol aircraft which already do precious little were taken for ministers...........................................  Hmm appears to be a trend here.

Well surely the Air Corps wont allow ministers to diminish operational and training requirements in the AW139s and 135s...........................................................................  Then again purchasing a VIP kit for both and Captains Chairs for the AW139 kind of answers that question!!

Perhaps your right.... no balls to stand up and say no, no aircraft for ops.....same old same old.

Now im off to change my ................... key
ST

[Pink Panther]

I have to agree with you ST.It's looking like the same old story, jack of all trades and master of none!! Aer Corp management seem to have this "can do attitude" where ministers are concerned (They who must be obeyed!!!) at the expence of other ops. Still its nice to see that the low level tactical flying and gunners course coming in handy in the countrt side of Leitrim, money well spent???  '>

[papa 242]

Hi.All
They loved the 'can do' attitude at 15.45 on a Fri evening!!!
Of course you can have an a/c and crew for the weekend!!!!...what colour would you like.?..!!!!

Is'nt it lovely to be old enough to be so cynical!!!  '>

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi all
Given that they are the ultimate paymasters and, therefore, have to be kept sweet, the Air Corps will, as ever, do what it is told.Souza, an average of 6 hrs a day for a Casa is hardly underutilisation.For the Air Corps,it's nothing short of a miracle, given the way it used to be.The best thing to do would be to establish a pure VIP flight, just like the French Air Force's GLAM,which operates the National fleet of VIP aircraft and does not affect actual operational flights.
Apart from that, I smell the faint whiff of hypocrisy every time I hear AC pilots whinge about aircraft being "diverted" from essential training duties.Given the amount of spurious "training" flights that have occurred over the years, they doth protest a bit much, methinks.I specifically remember a ball being delivered to a big rugby match, one time, by Gazelle.That must have been the most expensive waste of flight time..no, hang on, what about the time the 125 went to the UK to collect it's own AOG...?
Who,me? Cynical?Nah,just a realist...
regards
GttC

[SousaTeuszii]

Hi GTTC,
Just a few points.
Firstly, the CASAs provide between 1200-1400 hrs per year on task. Thats an average of 1.9 hrs per day per aircraft! These are airline class turboprops that should be doing at least twice to three times that. As I have stated before PAL in Canada do 4.6 hrs/day/ aircraft with SKA 200s. The CASAs also provide no 24hr service, everybody just disappears after the mission is finished! It may be better then what it used to be but in my book it is still pathetic considering the resources available and not properly utilised.
Secondly, the divertion of training flights is a serious problem, not so much for the average day but more for people trying to run training courses, hence the stupidly elonggated pilot and crew training courses of old. New machines with better maintenance were meant to solve this problem but as there is only two when 50% of the fleet disappears over the fence it leaves only 1 machine for training/other ops/maintenance etc.
Thirdly, it is not only training but operations that are cancelled due to VIPs. The Army go to great lengths to plan their training operations in advance, this includes booked helicopters. It has been common place that an Army operation that has been booked up to three months in advance has to be cancelled two days before hand due to the aircraft being sent on a VIP. There is no first come first served the Army always lose out to VIP. Why do you think they stopped asking for Air Corps assistance at all. It is only due to the hard work of all the members of No3 over the last few years, producing more aircraft on the ramp and crewing them at all hours, that the Army now have a keen interest in Army aviation. This turn around took place before the new aircraft were in ordered and has nothing to do with anybody outside No 3. Well done to them all.
Finally, and somewhat linked to the last part of the above. A GLAM type system will only be set up if the Government cannot get aircraft due to the lack of availability and are forced to purchase more. This will never happen when people are willing to bend over backwards to accomodate last minute requests from ministers and cancel any other concivable operation to get them a machine. Until the Air Corps grow a set and say sorry no aircraft available then nothing will ever change.
ST

[202]

It may not be entirely on topic but is not inherently unfair that the Taoiseach can have the use of a State resource for what is a blatantly political mission.

Different story if say he is flying to meet a foreign VIP, or even to clinch a deal on a new factory etc but to be flown around to glorified residents association and school committee meetings is surely a complete abuse of the privilege.

[Pink Panther]

ST
Would you not agree heli availibility for the army has also increased due to the corp not doing SAR anymore??? Another service that was lost, one of the reasons been the corp were too busy flying VIP's to  guarantee heli's to the coast guard and offer a decent service.

[SousaTeuszii]

Hi PP,
The loss of SAR was quite complex but you are correct that this was an issue. In the latter days of the Dauphin operation VIPs by Dauphin were limited to the 'Top Three' to try and preserve some sort of service. Again, annoyingly this had to be instigated and fought for by the personnel in No 3.
With regards to Army avilablity the Alouettes certainly benefited from the SAR stand down and even after SAR left completely it was not uncommon to see a Dauphin doing Army ops and CIT missions.
However as I said before the loss of SAR was a complex issue and it should not be missed that the Army have been the beneficeries, and rightly so. I do believe it is fair to say that the Army top brass were delighted to wash their hands of what was an operational 'ball and chain' while circumstance and other issues played into their hands.
For this reason dont expect to see the Air Corps in any full time civil heli roles in a hurry. The Army have helis coming for their use and will not want to see them sitting on a ramp untouchable and at somebody elses behest. I have to say I fully agree with the sentiment.
ST