Author Topic: More on Airlift options  (Read 1321 times)

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Offline Old Redeye

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« on: November 03, 2006, 11:03:08 am »
Brand new US Navy C-40A Clipper (Boeing 737-700C/QC) lifting off from Tulsa, Oklahoma last week following completion.  Note the addition of winglets, not found on earlier production C-40A's, which increase range, payload and performance.

A viable option for the IAC with palletized kits for VIP and medevac in addition to standard fit = all cargo, half cargo/half pax (70) or all pax (125).  Long range, efficient.  Easy to train pilots for. Second line maintenance by contractor - Ryanair, etc.  NOTE:  VIP kit NOT a flying palace.  Some 1st Class/Bus Class pallets and some convertible lounge pallets.  No shower.  No gold and marble loo.  No polished woodwork.

Fouga

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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2006, 12:51:58 pm »
This would be better..............If only... 'stir_the_pot'

Offline clog

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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2006, 01:30:05 pm »
no lads,

a C-130-30J any time!!! 'applause'

Offline pilatus

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« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2006, 09:09:31 pm »
i dont think it has been mentioned here yet but how about the IL_76?its cheaper than a herc but with speed closer to the Boeing and more payload than either and it can quickly be converted to transport passengers!the ruskies have a new version of the aircraft which is NATO compatiable so it would be easy to operate alongside EU forces!so i think it would be a good all rounder!so guys what do you all think?
above and beyond

Offline SousaTeuszii

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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2006, 08:32:46 pm »
Hi Old Redeye,
Im thinking along that line also. It is perfect for the international commitments and should be acceptable to the following:

Army: Troop and cargo rotations to international ops.

Air Corps: Prestige aircraft and operation

Government: Global VIP and large deligation capabilities

General Public: Large capability to assist in humanitarian operations either under Government or NGO direction.

Clog,
Have a look at the 'C295 again' thread. Quite a good debate by all there. Have a read through that and see what you think. If you still come up with the C130J for current ops then so be it.

Pilatus,
The IL76 is indeed a formidable machine. its current operations in the civil outsize cargo operations proves this. I would however be concerned about its maintainance and fuel costs. The fuel burn and MTBF on russian equipment is quite poor. They are built like bick s**thouses and run in any environments but that lack of refinement is also their downfall when compared to westren equipment for cost of operation.
The IL 76 is also a pure airlifter. I think to get the Government to loosen the purse strings for the Air Corps one more time there would have to be an incentive for them. i.e a prestige VIP aircraft capable of taking them around the world (In comfort not luxury).
ST

Offline Old Redeye

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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2006, 09:17:27 am »
Cheers Sousa

Offline pilatus

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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2006, 07:19:57 pm »
in the current airforcesmonthly magazine(december),there is a news bulletin on page21 about the upgraded IL-76MD-90.they state that the engines have been replaced by PS-90A-76 which gives a 17-19%improvement in fuel consumption and has better ovweall performance than the fuel guzzling D-30KP-2 engine it is replacing!

would this make much difference and make this bird a viable option!
above and beyond

Offline Old Redeye

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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2006, 08:51:19 am »
Pilatus,

A re-engined IL-76 with advanced western avionics has a certain attraction.  There are even plans beyond the PS-90's - using CFM-56's as on 737's, etc.  However, look at Ireland's airlift requirements again and I suspect the IL-76 is overkill.  More cargo capability than a C-130J-30, without the ability to practically move numbers troops over long distances found in an airliner.

The Irish airlift soluton lies in the Nordic+ EU battlegroup realtionship with Finland, Sweden and Norway.  That's what ultimately sells the 737QC, with which Ireland has the ability to move troops and cargo, though not outsized cargo such as vehicles.  Therefore, consider an Irish 737 as part of the larger Nordic+ matrix along with Finnish C-295's, Norwegian and Swedish C-130's, and: a. access to NATO SALIS AN-124's as required in conjunction with N+ partners Norway, Sweden, Finalnd and, b. access to C-17 lift as required when Sweden, Finland and Norway join the NATO Strategic Airlift Component (SAC) as expected in 2007, with capability in service from 2008.

Under this scenario, the IAC's 737 serves as a primary N+ troop lifter in return for routine C-130 and C-295 missions and access to AN-124's and C-17's for major deployments.  

I would go even further and replace the B200 with a second-hand CN-235 upgraded to 235-300 standard just before the IAC 235 MPA's go through their upgrade to -300 with FITS.  There are used 235's on the market and this would give the IAC intra-Europe airlift capability and a Ranger Wing support capability along with a 235 trainer.  As is, multi-engine students already go through a Flight Safety B200 course for m/e certification.  Continue that, then bring them home to continue their training on the 235.

Offline Shamrock145

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« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2007, 04:40:43 pm »
One point to keep in mind ... interoperability with other arms of the Defence Forces.

On that, a quote from the Mowag web site about the PIRANHA APC ...

"Another area which has been given due consideration has been mobility. A high performance suspension system both conventional and hydropneumatic with a MOWAG-designed height adjustment system at all wheel stations in combination with CTIS and ABS, as well as high power-to-weight ratio power packs have resulted in a class of wheeled vehicles with a mobility comparable to tracked vehicles, whilst still retaining air-transportability in a C-130 aircraft.

...145

Offline SousaTeuszii

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« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2007, 03:24:58 pm »
Hi 145,
Looking at other web boards it appears that the Piranha aka LAV just about fits into a C130J. I believe this also requires some engineering work to accomplish.
Also bear in mind that this is only one vehicle putting the aircraft close to max payload. Where will you be going with one vehicle?
Vehicle transport is much easier, efficent and cheaper if done in bulk by sea.
ST

Offline IAS

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« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2007, 08:33:42 pm »
Assuming you're not deploying to somewhere like the Central African Republic, The Congo etc....

IAS





Offline Old Redeye

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« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2007, 11:08:32 am »
Ireland does not need and will not obtain an airlifter capable of transporting heavy armoured vehicles like the LAV.  This will be done by the new Naval Service Multi-Role Vessel and/or by AN-124's.  The latter either purpose chartered, or more likely, a lift service obtained from the NATO SALIS pool in support of an EU/UN operation.  Could also be via Swedish/RAF/NATO/USAF C-17 under certain circumstances.

Offline Old Redeye

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« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2007, 05:17:17 pm »
Anything to the spculation that the IAC will lease a brand-new CN-235-300 for 18 months while the 235MPA's undergo serial mid-life overhaul/upgrades at CASA?  Would have the same advanced avionics systems/cockpit as the MPA's when they return to service (also identical to the C-295). Good opportunity to explore airlift requirments with an option to buy?