Irish Air Corps AW139 air to air piccies

[Frank]

Hi Guys,

A few weeks ago I was lucky enough to be with the Air Corps while they practised firing machine guns at ground targets from their newly delivered AW139 helicopters.

Now for obvious safety reasons we weren't allowed to be in front of the helicopter while it was firing live ammunition but an air to air session was arranged for later in the day when the helicopter fired blanks. (An army tv crew were there so it was more for video than for still shots).

Still, not being a person who turns down an air to air session, I've included some of those shots too.

Target aircraft was AW139, reg 274 and camera ship was Alouette III, reg 213.

Thanks to everyone involved in the shoot and thanks especially to all the people in HQ Air Corps who sanctioned my trip.

Anyway, on with the show, here's the pictures, full size pictures can be found here:

http://www.irishairpics.com/reports/aw139_airfiring_07/


Regards,

Frank.

[Spook]

Great pics Frank,as ever.  

[Old Redeye]

Well done Frank.  Why no crew helmets in the 139??  Still waiting for the green ones to come?

[Guinness]

Well done Frank

Old Redeye.
I think that the aircrew only wear helmets for "combat-missions".
When I visited the Don last month only the Alu III crew worn helmets.
Both AW-139 and EC-135 crew had headsets on.

Guinness

[SousaTeuszii]

Frank,
Great pictures of sometihng I thought Id never see!

Does anybody know what the red item is on the end of the weapon? To me it looks like a stubby BFA but seeing that there is tracer in the third picture I doubt  very much if it is!

Old Redeye,
I imagine the lack of helmets is most likely due to compatibility issues with current helmets and the new machines ICS system. I think in Ireland a bird strike is still a better reason for a helmet then combat.

ST

[SousaTeuszii]

Oops,
Blinded by the gucci photos I never actually read your post fully. If I did Id have known it was a BFA!
ST

[pym]

First off, Frank - amazing photo's. I like the A3 with the blurred background especially. Every single shot is excellent though, well done and thanks for posting them.

I'm glad to see both the 135 and 139 are fully kitted out with wire cutters. Reading some comments by RAF Puma crews - it seems they aren't similarly kitted out and they almost lost a helicopter a while ago because of it. The MoD wouldn't sanction the expense....

Now for my usual question per topic:
From observing the 139's and looking at them in photo's they seem to have a slightly odd flight profile. The nose is tilted up a few degrees in forward flight. Can anyone explain the reasoning behind this? Are there positives and negatives related to flying this way?

I've never noticed it on the Dauphin/A3/Gazelle or 135

[Old Redeye]

If I may expand on my previous post - not only are the 139 crews not wearing helmets, but there is no evidence of eye protection or survival vests and LPU's (life preservers) - all of which are considered standard in contemporary military aviation operations - be it US, Brit, French, Canada, etc.  Does the IAC have body armour for flight crews?  

There is no such thing as an "admin flight" - and certainly range firing is not admin flying anyway.  Even an aircraft doing pattern work at Baldonnel could be called upon to respond to an emergency and end up down in the mountains with weather closing in or ditched at sea.  Train as you fight - or perhaps in the case Ireland, train as you plan to operate at least.

The IAC will deploy helicopters on nternational missions someday, no matter what some in government may say, and now is the time to develop the skills and the mindset for "operations", particularly given the 139's stated mission of support to SF.  

These pix give the impression that the IAC lacks the professional focus of a serious military air arm.  Unfortunate, since the IAC already has something of an international reputation as a none-too-serious flyng club - which is unfair and probably unfounded.  

I know, I know...mountains out of mole hills.....

Cheers

[Taj]

Fully agree Redeye. Th kit being worn is more akin to civilian heli ops.
On an aside, unless the militarised AW149's ever see service here we will never see the AW139 on an overseas deployment.They are basically a civilian heli with Sincgars and GPMG attached.No armour, no crew protection.Only a big step up in training capability for the boys on the ground. The fourth pic down is proof of that. Heat seeking SAM anyone?

[pym]

Heat seeking SAM? Look, there's a nice plume of exhaust heat from a bonafide combat helicopter.

I still think the biggest risk to a helicopter is small arms fire at low altitude, which leads into your other point about the lack of armor.

Personally though, I think the main reason against AW-139's being deployed abroad is due to the low numbers in service. There are relatively low risk environments the army are deployed to and if there were say, 12+ in service I could see them being used in Liberia.  

While I agree that the lack of combat gear, helmets etc is unusual - we cannot lose sight of the fact that these helicopters are quite new in service. I would imagine that over the coming months and years we'll see proper kit being added to the flight crews lockers and perhaps a few add ons for the AW-139 itself.

If the AW-149 does ever see the light of day, I think it's possible that some of the improvements could be backported to the AW-139 - possibly changing the exhaust system, adding IR supressors etc. I'm sure some form of protection like kevlar could at least be added to the floor.

The crash proof seating for troops has been shown in one or two photos up to this point as well. I'm not sure if these would have any kind of other protection. But it's sure odd to see special crash proof troop seats - while the pilots fly on leather arm chairs!

From the bit I've read about the 139 - it seems to have a relative abundance of extra power from the two PT-6 engines, so  the idea of strapping on more kit is not out of the question.

[Taj]

Pym...

My plume's bigger than your plume!!! About 60 feet bigger. Nothing IR surpressor kit wouldn't fix. The 139 would need a good deal o modification for overseas use. It's not beyonds the bounds of possibility though.

[Guinness]

Nice to see an Apache '>

Within a few month I'll bet you'll see a few of them on Baldonnel.

More news will follow !!!

Guinness

[clog]

Is Commandant De Jong still hot for this?

Hope so! It would be nice to see a pair on a nav. trip. lets wait and see.