Author Topic: UK MP wants to stop flying in The Mach Loop  (Read 433 times)

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Fouga

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UK MP wants to stop flying in The Mach Loop
« on: July 27, 2010, 11:18:10 pm »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-10720984

Elfyn Llwyd MP demands rethink on low-fly jet training

An MP has demanded the Ministry of Defence (MOD) to take immediate steps to stop low flying training over rural Wales, due to health risks.

Dwyfor Meirionnydd MP Elfyn Llwyd claims the practice is damaging some of his constituents' hearing.

Wales is one of the three main areas in the UK where low-fly training is carried out because of its large areas of unrestricted airspace.

The MOD said low-level training was a continuing requirement.

Mr Llwyd wants immediate steps taken to tackle what he called the "severe health dangers" linked to the practice.

It is not clear where all the planes come from although one resident said some American aircraft fly from the east of England to use the airspace.

The Plaid Cymru parliamentary leader has urged the UK government to follow the lead of Germany, which ceased low flying in German airspace following research by academics on the health consequences.

That government also took steps to lessen the noise pollution, Mr Llwyd said.

However, Anglesey's MP Albert Owen said the training was essential and a big contributor to the local economy.

A statement by defence minister Andrew Robathan on 19 July indicated there had been an increase of 11% in flying hours on the previous training year across the UK.

Another question in the House of Lords revealed that 16 other countries, including Germany, have used UK airspace for training purposes.

Mr Llwyd said: "We must have an urgent rethink of this situation. More jets than ever before are now being trained and in no way are the people of north and mid Wales being compensated for this.

"In my constituency, a high percentage of those living in Dinas Mawddwy and Llanuwchllyn who were children in primary schools there, now have problems with hearing.

"Research by German Professor Isling proved beyond doubt that when jets fly at low altitudes, it does indeed have a detrimental effect upon an individual's hearing.

"While the German government will not allow low-flying of this type on its own territory, the UK government is meanwhile perfectly happy for them to use ours."

'Huge investor'
 
Mr Owen said he had to look at the big picture.

"What we're talking about is a base that has been here 60 years. Yes, it is noisy, the people understand that.

"It's a huge investor into the local economy. It brings quality jobs to the area and we have maintenance jobs attached to this fast flying.

"If that didn't happen in Anglesey, those jobs would go somewhere else.

"It's a balance between the economy and the defence of our country."

The north of England, including the Lake District in Cumbria, and parts of Scotland are the two other major areas for low-level flight training.

Last year, Dumfries and Galloway horse breeder Alyson King lost a £100,000 compensation claim against the MOD after arguing that low flights were causing distress to her family and the animals at a sanctuary she runs.

A MOD spokesman said in response to Mr Llwyd's proposal: "Current operations show there is a continuing requirement for our pilots to operate successfully in the low-level environment.

"To ensure our armed forces are capable of meeting the operational task, low flying training must be conducted in the UK before deployment to operational theatres."


And then this

Marian Rees lives in Talyllyn, Gwynedd, and says the low-flying by military planes has been a problem for years.

She said: "The RAF initially were using it and now they train other pilots from all over the world. The Americans in particular are using this valley coming all the way from East Anglia.

"It not just an annoyance, it's to do with safety and health as well, because when these F16s and Eurofighters come through you can actually feel it go right through your body.

"But how can you prove it? In Germany they proved it of course.

"I want to see it stopping. There's no justification for it at all."


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Never been any F-16's thru The Loop..

Offline Lootenant Pigeon

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Re: UK MP wants to stop flying in The Mach Loop
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2010, 11:32:41 pm »

Id be inclined to agree with the residents on this one but its unlikely they could get low level stopped one imagines. However, you would think that the RAF et al could at least restrict their operations to say 3 days a week as a compromise.

Having said that, I reckon theres a whole lot of members on here ( including me ) who would like nothing better than having 5th generation jets blasting over their house a few times a day.  :airforce_cool:

Offline Machlooper

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Re: UK MP wants to stop flying in The Mach Loop
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2010, 11:46:19 am »
Ok guys. Stop this thread right here!!
 I dont think people should start posting opinions and comments on a subject that is relatively unknown in Ireland. There is a big Sh*%t storm going on in the UK about the Mach Loop for various reasons and these Plaid Cymru MP's are jumping on the bandwagon.
Ive been going to the Machloop for 8 years and Im friends with a lot of locals and I know the majority of people in Dinas Mawddwy. Im also friends with a lot of RAF pilots so I see both sides of the story.
So trust me on this, its being blown way out of context by the anti-low flying lobbyists. A lot of them are people who moved into the area, it would be akin to moving from a residential suburb of Dublin to the firing line on the glen of Imall range. We all know what goes on in the Glen.
The road noise at Dinas is a lot more annoying than the aircraft and the aircraft noise only lasts 2 seconds and is a whoosh rather than a sudden bang. OK, the F-15's can be loud but not hearing damage loud and are not a daily occurance.
Aircraft movements have gone from 50+ a day during the cold war to about 0-10  today, 0900-1800hrs, mon-fri.
The most aircraft recorded in a day recent years was 45 last june and this is an extreme rarity, these guys were working up for Iraq and happened to use the Loop, which is a small part of LFA7 (Low Flying Area) and the LFS (Low Flying System)
F-16's have only been recorded in the Loop once in the past 20 years so dont know where that guy is going and Typhoons, though a little more common these days, are a rarity in the Loop. As a matter of fact it took me 6 years to bag my first one!!! The majority of traffic are Hawks from RAF Valley and the locals say these dont bother them!!!

Anyhoo, I wont harp on , this subject has been done to the death on all the UK forums even before these MPs started their latest rant. Its all about votes and money guys, votes and money!!

 :airforce_angry:

Offline Lootenant Pigeon

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Re: UK MP wants to stop flying in The Mach Loop
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2010, 01:36:16 pm »

Good post Machlooper, nice to hear from someone who knows what they are talking about. However, I defend my right to freedom of speech and if we want to do this topic to death again on this site then we are allowed to do so !  :stirthepot:

Offline Machlooper

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Re: UK MP wants to stop flying in The Mach Loop
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2010, 04:40:05 pm »
However, I defend my right to freedom of speech and if we want to do this topic to death again on this site then we are allowed to do so !  :stirthepot:

Stir the Sh@#t if you like but Im telling you now, this particular subject has caused some UK forums and websites to close in the past few weeks. You may have the right to freedom of speech but you dont have the right to cause trouble for the owner and moderator of this site/forum.
The subject of the Mach Loop and anti low flying on the net is being monitered closely by both sides in the "Ban low flying" debate, grant it on this side of the pond it doesnt stir up as much talk but I know for a fact that the likes of You Tube and aviation specific sites have been used to gather evidence against the RAF which is why I suggest we just monitor the situation over there and watch what we say about wheather low flying is good or bad.

This is not a "Ball Hop", Im deadly serious. The likes of Warplane.co.uk for example have been taken down and the website is currently under review, while other more open websites and forums have closed doors to non members and all posts are heavily moderated and thankfully at this stage its self-moderating by the people posting for the most part.

Ive said my piece, its up to the hopefully mature people posting on here to take what they want from it. Dont get me wrong, this forum may well be unknown to many people in the UK, Im just pointing out that the subject of Low Flying is a very closely watched one at the moment. This may well blow over as it has in the past but this time, thanks to the web (and I put my hands up, people like me!) the anti low flying people have all the ammo they need to keep stirring it up!!

 Heres hoping I dont have to change my user name  :airforce_undecided: