Anti-drug smuggling ops -

[Silver]

Is there a role for the PC-9 in anti-drug smuggling operations ?

I believe there is.
The Gardai have stated in the past that light aircraft are being used to smuggle drugs into Ireland.

Therefore, wouldn't it send a clear message to drug smugglers that Ireland is no longer a 'soft touch' (when it comes to importation of drugs) if the PC-9's were used to intercept such aircraft ?!  

Will we ever see the day when there is a headline story in the papers of an armed PC-9 ordering a light aircraft to land, and the subsequent discover of drugs onboard said plane ?

[clan]

Silver you are very optimistic, We are the gateway for drugs importation into the UK vast qtys pass into Irish Airspace and waters, the Gardai know it the Goverment know it the NS know it and I presume so do the IAC. And it has been going on for years and it will continue to go on for years to come. As the Goverment will not spend the money to equip the NS and to a lesser extend the Air Corp to try and put the squeese on these people. But they will spend Millions, on treatment programmes in the Health Service for drug addicts, they will spend millions on keeping them in prision because they stole a few clothes in Dunnes to flog to feed their habit.
If some European agency, did a study on exactly how much they think comes through Irish waters or Airspace and publishs there report for every one to see maybe and this is a huge MAYBE they might invest in the equipment to try and reduce the value of inported drugs. British Customs officials work in Irish Airports, and it saves us a fortune. Even to buy a few Drugs detection dogs for the regional airports or the main airports and Ports, but they cost money and we do not spend money on prevention.
But we will fork out to pay for that problems consequences.
Plus the PC9s all eight of them are trainers, and I presume they do not do patrols and how would they be expected to cover Irish airspace and detect a light aircraft that happened into our region. With out the necessary radar coverage that we do not have.
Nice idea, but a few quid on a few men/women with Dogs would be cheaper and more sucessful.
Don't take this as dismissal of your idea, I just cannot see the will to make it happen. I wonder have the PC9's even flown at night on the West Coast.South Coast. One AWAC and some fast interceptor Jets, plus 15 new NS patrol boats may help though

[Silver]

I agree that more customs sniffer dogs are badly required, as are 8+ fast patrol boats for the NS.

However, I believe that it would be easily possible for the AC to organise random airspace patrols using the PC-9's, if the will was there on the part of the 'powers-that-be' to send out the message that we are serious about tackling this problem.

The successful interception of a drug smuggling aircraft (probably with a prior Garda tip-off) would make a strong case for the purchase of additional PC-9's.

Don't forget, Brazil use their Super Tucanos for anti-smuggling interceptions.

[clan]

You hit the nail on the head, "if the will was there"
How many of the PC9's are ready to take off at a moments notice 24/7. I would guess none. The Garda defender/Islander does patrols over the west coast I guess to check for, subversives/drug smugglers. But who do they call, if the find something(a) no one (b) RAF ©Bertie

[Silver]

Good point, clan.

Who do the Gardai call in such a situation ?
I presume if they spot a boat dropping something suspicious along the coastline, they would call the nearest Garda station to investigate - or perhaps the Navy (though the Navy don't have rapid response boats, which they should !).

However, if a suspicious plane is spotted, I guess the best they can do is just to follow it.

In my opinion, drugs can probably be connected to c.70% of all crime and violence in Ireland and we should be doing a lot more to tackle the importation of drugs. (As well as stopping so much of it end up in other EU countries!)

How much money is spent on Garda time, drug rehabilitation, supporting victims of crime etc etc due to the amount of drugs about........... I would guess 10's of millions of euros !

A fraction of this money could have a major impact on the problem if it was spent on prevention i.e. Fast Patrol Boats for the Navy and regular patrols using the PC-9's (in co-operation with the Gardai/Customs). In turn this would argue the case for at least 2 x additional PC-9's - if not 4 x extra PC-9's.

The govt need to realise that -

Prevention is better than cure !

Just look at the smoking ban as a good example of prevention saving millions of euros in the longer term, not to mention the improved quality of life to society as a whole.

[clan]

The Smoking ban is the first time any Irish Goverment, implemented a policy that will initially cost them money but with the propsect of saving them money in the long term.
In the case of drugs, reduce the supply using all the forces of the state, Customs ,Air Corp, NS and Gardai provide them with the machinery, dogs, boats, planes, personal  and a structure to use there equipment and in the long term the money spent most of it will be re-couped on savings on healthcare, Paye wages for the workers employed and on indirect labour associated.
Someone in goverment should stick there neck out and implement the structure.
Look at Asia, every western Airforce in the world is helping shifting supplies to that region but ours. And I am sure the IAC would love to be involved if we had the equipment

[sealion]

I dont see that the Pilatus would be any use for monitoring the arial movement of suspected drug smugglers. The Casa is much better at this.

You cannot shoot a civil aircraft out of the sky if you suspect him to be smuggling drugs. End of story. Rules of engagement in the air is the same as those on the ground. This is not columbia.

Ok,they can order an aircraft to land...then what? Where do you land them? Whats to stop them from dumping their "cargo" while being escorted to a suitable secure airfield,assuming the target aircraft has the ability,fuel etc to land there.
In my opinion an aircraft fitted with FLIR and radar is a far more useful tool in the interception of drug smuggling aircraft,being able to record the movement of aircraft from a distance,and produce this recording as evidence in court. Covert surveillance from air can also record who recieves the cargo. The trafficers are merely a pawn in the operation.

The Pilatus are only equipped with mark 1 eyeball. It has no facility to record events. None acceptable in a court of law anyway.

[Stinger]

What about having the PC-9's escort the suspect aircraft to it's destination where it will be met by members of the ERU\ARW\who ever is appropriate, who will have been on stand by and helicoptered into the location.  Note this may need the introduction of new skills such as fast roping to the unit involved

[sealion]

Maybe Helis equipped with flir could do the job? Its all about evidence.

[FMolloy]

How much of the drugs in this country come in via illegal flights? The cost of anti-drugs missions by the PC-9 might not be warranted if the amount of drugs involved is low.

How would such missions fit in to the current ATCP set up? Who would give the pilot the authority to act?

Who would foot the bill? Defence or Justice?

[clan]

Its a huge grey area, who does what, who tells who. I would guess more drugs are bought ashore via Boat then air.
But without the investigation into how they arrive how much they think comes through irish terrority they can cannot action a plan to prevent it. So until that happens they cannot formulate a plan of prevention.

[Silver]

Yes there are grey areas no doubt.

However, I firmly believe we need to show that we are determind to make life hard for would-be smugglers.

Even if the govt announced that PC-9's would be conducting anti-drug smuggling ops - however randomly they actually took place - it would signal a new determination to fight this plague on Irish society.

[clan]

It might help, but criminals can walk around this country and do what they like, look at Limerick and that is not an isolated case, it is just highlighted more. Bertie is too busy having Tea with Gerry, Dougal is Dougal, he has arguments with himself, and Willie O will say the triple Lock system and lack of a UN mandate will mean the Air Corp stay as they are.
It would not take a lot of brains to co-ordiante these people, but remember we are dealing with Civil Servents here.