Lear Jet, PC-9Ms, Heli contracts, what next ?

[FiannaFail]

Following the purchase  of additional aircraft to the Air Corps in recent months - the Lear Jet, PC-9Ms and the new Heli contracts which aircraft would you like the Government to purchase next?
FiannaFail

[Turkey]

The DF both 'R' and 'P' need the IAC to get more Heli's to bring the complement up to a reasonable figure and I belive this should be done first, the Lear jet and the G4 should be sold as they, clearly, serve no useful purpose.
About 5 medium helicopters should be purchased and a investigation should be carried out into the purchase of a pure armed combat-support helicopter such as the AH-1w or the Tiger.
At least 4 more Casa MPA's should be bought without futher delay, followed by a pair of suitable tactical transport aircrafts, new utility aircrafts should then be bought, [posably more AB139's], when all this is done, a reasonable number of F/A/T-50 Golden Eagle Jet aircrafts should be bought.

[Silver]

Next purchases required (in order of importance) -

A. 2 x (extra!) AB139's
B. 2 x C130's (or similar)
C. 6 x Medium Lift Heli's
D. 2 x CASA 235 MPA's
E. 4 x Defender/Islander
F. 4 x (extra!) PC-9M's



Sell the Lear and G4 - replace with 'leased' Aer Lingus jet.

[Turkey]

Why more PC-9's?
If we are going to buy more fixed wing armed aircrafts, then why not buy real ones instead of these just about marginally combat capable trainers.
I see little reason at the moment for buyin more PC-9's in the absence of serious combat capable aircrafts.
Perhaps in the future there may be a reason to buy more possably optimised purely for ground attack and recon work, [all hardpoints activated] but I suspect that there are better types available.
I am also not sure what function a Defender type aircraft would preform, more helis' might suit the roles better.

Edited by Turkey for some reason............

[Turkey]

By the way, ff, there were no additional aircrafts bought, apart from that a$$hole berties substute dick; the lear jet.
All the purchases are only long overdue replacements to cover the neglect of the Air Corps by that shower of gangsters pretending to be a political party carrying the same name as you.

[FiannaFail]

And happy New Year to you too Turkey!!
FiannaFail

[Guinness]

Here we go again !!

Guinness

[sealion]

Quote (Silver @ 30 Dec. 2004,23:49)

Next purchases required (in order of importance) - A. 2 x (extra!) AB139's B. 2 x C130's (or similar) C. 6 x Medium Lift Heli's D. 2 x CASA 235 MPA's E. 4 x Defender/Islander Sell the Lear and G4 - replace with 'leased' Aer Lingus jet.

Not a bad selection there(I removed the Pilatus,I dont think any further examples could contribute much to the Air Corps).

What this country NEEDS,particularly in the wake of natural disasters,both in the indian ocean and closer to home,is Helicopters. In all bad weather situations,the first thing to stop working in this isle is the road network,so all types and sizes of Helis are a must,combined with Fixed wing Cargo carrying aircraft.

The Jet fighter question has gone round and around on this board already many times,and given all arguments I dont think many will argue that Now is the time to tell the people of ireland(who are for the most part in panic mode,fuelled by the sensationalist "it could happen here" stories of imminent disaster on a biblical scale) that we need Helis. Anyone who was about during the winter of 82 will remember how useful 242 was,delivering bales to cattle stranded on the mountain snow.

Our greatest risk here is not from international terrorism,but weather. Airmobility is the solution. You cannot shoot down a storm. Fighters cannot carry medical supplies to survivors.

Neither can executive jets for that matter. The boxes leave a print on the leather upholstery.

[Guinness]

Sealion,

to my opinion you're right.
Helicopters is the best option for the IAC.

Why would you need expensive jets anyway ??

The RNLAF made the mistake of getting their feet wet on the JSF programm which ( ofcourse ) is run by the USA.
It'll only cost the taxpayers millions of €uro's and if you look at the bottemline.......what good will these planes do for The Netherlands '>

I can see your idea is quite similar to mine or am I mistaken?

Guinness

[Silver]

My main reason for suggesting 4 x extra PC-9's is that I believe we should be using our PC-9's for anti-drug smuggling ops - see my other thread on same.


Another possibility re transport planes would be to lease an Aer Lingus A330 (or similar) and use it for troop/cargo/VIP transport.

[Buran]

What makes you think aer lingus would want to lease out an A330 at all, let alone at the times when required by the DF.
Once they get the open skys agreement sorted, they will be looking for additional aircraft, not looking to lease out a/c. The old business model of busy summer / slack winter is no longer acceptable. Aer lingus like ryanair etc, are moving to the business model where you have to make all of your assets economical 24/7/365. You saw what happened when the wind blew one 330 into another. It really screwed their schedule for days. So if you want to work in a lease arangement, it would all have to be aggreed in advance to work in with aer lingus' schedule, which i imagine would hardly suit the aer corps. And you can be sure aer lingus will make you pay for the privilage.

So what would be the most economical?

Surely the question of whether we need/want the G4 and learjet is a simple matter of economics.
If a large business can justify a biz jet for themselves, then i can imagine we as a country can.
Im not saying we do need them, i dont know, but surely some bean counter some where can let us know.
I know we all feel alot of the trips made by the gov are just jolies, but they will make those journeys one way or another. So what way is the most economical to the taxpayer....

[clan]

Leasing an aircraft is an option, but why from Aer Lingus, there are many aircrat leasing companies in Ireland with A320 or what ever, you can even lease C130's if so required.
I doubt Aer Lingus would have done us a deal anyway. Two ex US weather C130's with very low hours are available. snap them up.

[Silver]

The Aer Lingus option was just a suggestion. I reckoned that because they are state owned, we could work out a good deal.

The ex-US weather C130's sound like a good idea.

I believe we will always have at least one govt jet.

[Guinness]

Why WC-130's instead of C-130J's?'>??

Guinness

1. bump the AB-139 buy up to 8 or order 4+ NH-90's for international ops - promote/join European Support Helicopter Force of EU/NATO nations to develop standardized, interoperable battlefield helo capability
2. order a C-130J-30 with delivery in 2007 - or join the A400 program with delivery in 2010 at best, requiring a C-295 as interim airlifter - promote/join European Airlift Group of EU/NATO nations to jointly task/train airlift assets
3. Raisbeck upgrade for the B200 or replace with a newer B200
4. Obtain a late model Cessna Caravan or second B200
5. Replace the GIV with a Challenger 604 or Challenger 800
6. Mid-Life Upgrade for CN-235 MPA's