How to argue

[Imshi-Yallah]

Right then, ever been drawn into an argument about the aircorps by some little "individual" who gets away with using the same illogical put downs against you, and enraging you by slandering the air corps and its crew (I punched my manager in one job, ####### when he reported me I presented my evidence of his bullying other employees...I think he's a part time barman now), the purpose of this thread is for us to gather our expertise, not to make a better aircorps but to make life as a corp supporter a bit easier.
So...lets hear the typical arguments, and refine some sharpish responses.
I've been presumtuos nough already so I'll start the ball rolling on the put downs and leave it at that.
How can I best respond to the following (No foaming at the mouth about the need for F-16s etc please.).
1."We're neutral why do we need an airforce"
2."I'd rather the money got spent on hospitals than toys for the boys"
3."I don't believe in spending on weapons  when we could be feeding orphans instead of murdering them like that awful Bush man"
4."Sure the air corps are useless anyway, they've no fighters whats the point of them"

OMG, CQ; do you and I work for the same company? nice to know I am not the only one who has to put up with that kind of a$$hole.
Possable responses:
[1] Define neutrality?and please explain how it helped Norway and Denmark?
[2] Personally I would rather health service money was spent on doctors and nurses, not as it seems on administration, [a load of empty suits in a hurry] Besides we could clear all the waiting lists in a year by spending billions, but what then would we do with all the new empty hospitals and all the idle, recently employed, doctors and nurses.
[3] (A) what orphans has Bush murderd?
     (B) Who's going to feed our orphans after someone turns this country over?
     ©Did you ever hear of KFOR? wepons help get food delivered!
[4] Oh you know we have no fighters, how very knowlageable of you? do you know anything else about the Air Corps? how many lives have they saved? what avaition 'firsts' have they taken part in? don't know a lot do you?

Ok , a little off the wall, but what do you expect at 02.30 on a monday morning?
The point is that there are only 2 types of people in this country who do not feel we should have an airforce; fools and traitors,the majority of course are the former, and there is no getting through to them, no matter what you say, they will not see your point.
Better to identify those people with sense and persuade them to write to their td's, and hope the fools and traitors are the ones who catch the flak and bullets.


Oh, and CQ; stop hitting people!! '> wish I 'd done it

[Irish Marine]

'>
Turkey- Do you suport the idea of the Aircorps having fighter jets?  I am very aware of the great record of the Aircorps in saving people every year and the great work they do in transporting people all over Ireland dealing with health issues.

I personally think that the Aircorps should be revamped with new planes and helicopters.
Well Turkey I look forward to hearing your commets. '>

[Tucco]

Responses:

Ireland is not neutral, its non aligned.

*No one is going to attack us why do we need them?  Who's about to attack Belgium or Denmark.  Are you happy to live in Europe's only undefended airspace.  We always had basic air defence.  Fighters from WWII up to the 70s, strike jets up to 1999/2000.  So this isn't a new idea stupid.

*Air Corps needed so we can host Euro summits, vital for the economy.  The Irish may not expect air defence, but all of our European neighbours do.  Including all of the new entrants.  The rest of the developed/developing world expects it also.

*US important to Irish economy, we now have no way of providing air security to US presidents visiting. ( In Clinton's day it may not have been needed.  But even then we had the Light Strike Squadron.)  Now things have changed.

*It doesn't cost hundreds of millions of Euro to provide basic air defence.  And one doesn't always have to buy F-16s!  Believe it or not there are other jets out there.  And it all comes out of the Defence budget that's put in place every year when the Department of Health's already got its allocation.  It DOESN'T come out of the health budget!

*Air defence not about WWII dogfights idiot.  Its about securing airspace.  Inspecting damaged airliners.  Escorting them to an airport.  A service every other country offers.  Its about CAP. VIP flypasts.  Drug interdiction.  Army training to allow our soldiers help the dying orphans more effectively. Deterrent vs combat.

*Sure, the RAF will defend us?  Really, have we signed an agreement with them.  Aren't they stretched to the bone on foreign deployments.  And anyway you just said we were neutral, wouldn't it go against your beliefs to allow the RAF in.
etc etc etc.

Yep, we've all had the same arguments.

[nonexistantfoo]

Anyone out there with a pilots license? Anyone out their with access to plane at the local aerodrome?

This would probably result in a year + in jail or a serious fine and definetely the loss of your pilots license but here is the way to make the point about Irelands air defence needs:

Get a load of ten penny sweet bags, write "bomb" on each of them. Fuel your cessna up completely. Fly to RTE HQ or the Curragh. Proceed to circle as long as you have fuel, periodically dropping the sweets to the ground, (to avoid injury to anyone how about providing a nice little parachute?). Stay circling. Wait till your intercepted, which may only take an hour or so actually - lots of activity seen these days. Ask over the radio what can they do to make you land. After a further few hours when the Marchetti comes back armed with a gun pod you should probably vacate the area... but the point is made.

Maybe it'd be overkill but how about carrying a huge banner (like the advertisements you occasionally see) on the back of the plane... with the words "What capability?".

In the even a bunch of tornados make the hop across the Irish sea after a few hours, your point will still have been made to the public.

Apart from the danger to one's pilots licence, dropping anything from a Cessana, little parachutes or not, could result in a serious injury, nice idea thou'
Here's something slightly less whacky: Every Friday Ray D'arcy has a feature on his radio show; 'Fix it Friday', where the general public are invited to text, snail mail, phone, or e-mail in their questions, for said mister D'arcy and his team then endevour to find the answers.Comming up shortly will be the 60th aniversary of two important avaition events of WW2, on the 16th[Ithink]; the 25th mission of the Memphis Belle, and on the 17th; 617 squadrons attack on the dams.
the 16th[a friday] might be a good day for all of us to send the following text to Mister D'arcy, on 087 4100102;
 'Why does Ireland have no air-defence? we do not need it, or we cannot afford it are neither acceptable or true answers!' [add anything futher to taste, or lack of same]
Or does anybody have any better suggestions, also does anybody know if this is legal, as we do not want to do anything to bring any trouble on this board?


Where is that flame-proof suit? '>

[irishsamourai]

if you want , france maybe rent to you the french navy crusader , we don't use it
sorry

[Irish Marine]

I wish Ireland kept the Puma and looked into buying them. A decent Helicopter indeed!!!! It must have being a sad day in 83 when the Puma was returned to France due to the end of its lease.      '>  '>

[Lurk]

"OMG, CQ; do you and I work for the same company?"

  Imshi aka CQ?'>?