240 Overhaul

[Old Redeye]

Can anyone provide details of the recent overhaul of B200 #240?  Other than new paint, what else was done?  Who did the work?  Where was it done?  

Does this mean there are no immediate plans to replace this aircraft in fixed wing multi-engine training, utility and MATS back-up role?

[P.Doff]

It wasnt an overhaul just a respray done at Biggin Hill.
She did have a new undercarriage fitted, here in the don on an inspection ,not long before the respray.
240 still performs MATs flights occasionally but is more often used for training and with the new cadets almost finished on the PC-9 I'd sayn its gonna be flying huge hours.
Speaking of the cadets, everyone out here is commenting on what its gonna be like for them to get their wings on the PC-9 then have to fly cessnas for a couple of years, as the fixed wing guys will have to. What a let down (no offence to the Hawkeyes!! They fly operationally every day).

[Old Redeye]

THX for that P. Doff.  Any discussion of a replacement for 240?  Another B200 maybe?  New or low-time used?

I feel for the fixed wing cadets.  Need to get a new airlifter on the ramp ASAP - C-130J-30 or C-295.  That and the 235 MPA's will give them something worthwhile to look forward to.

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi all
All that new paint just so newbies can thump it off the runway! They would have been better served refitting the interior, which is getting tatty.KingAirs tend to get their undercarriage legs changed quite often ,by comparison with other types of executive aircraft. Redeye, expend no sympathy on the newbies.They need the Cessna time to build experience and they're in the safest aircraft in the Don.When they come off the PC-9, they are still only chicks, in real terms. The Cessna time will put manners on them. You seem to have a real gra for the C-295.Remember, it's not much bigger than an ATR-72, so it's not that much of a gain, in real terms.
regards
GttC

[P.Doff]

There is talk of the Cessna 172's being replaced by Caravans (Cessna caravans of the flying variety that is, before the smart asses start!!) but thats been the rumour for years. But its cropped up again recently as the 172's are the only piston engined a/c left in the corps . Replacing them with Caravans would mean getting rid of Avgas and the associated storage facilities(it only lasts for six months in storage anyhow!) and also bringing another PT-6 engined a/c online which would make it the most common engine type in corps service.
With regards to C-295's they would be nice and would take a lot of pressure off or just replace our rapidly ageing 235's, but unless they build yet another new hanger or sort out the cock up with the barely big enough present one, theres nowhere to put new/larger aircraft!!!!

[freespeed]

GTTC; Have to agree with your last post.  Spot on.

The King Air had a respray.  Nothing else in terms of a refurb or upgrade.  Avionics upgrades have been looked at, but no firm plans to date.  I've heard theres going to be a cabin upgrade next year if the money's available, and there's no plan to replace it in the short to medium term.

regards,

Freespeed

[pilatus]

the way it stands does the corps have the funding to overhaul 240 and is it actually worth overhauling?because you can get some cheap airframes out there that are in good condition for the same price as upgrading 240 and keeping it operational for the next10years say?

[Old Redeye]

Have to agree with Pilatus.  Chuck 240 and pick up a late-model used B200 or B350 with low hours and modern avionics.  They are out there for $US1-2M, about the same price as a new Cessna Caravan.

[pilatus]

is there even plans about a possible upgrade like for instance what kind of goodies would they stick in her?GPS a new one prob!?

[freespeed]

Pilatus/old redeye;

The upgrade is in the estimates, but that doesnt mean it'll be sanctioned.  Its purely a cabin refurb, not an overhaul.  Although not the newest avionics, the aircraft is doing plenty of flying in the training role.  With the imminent arrival of PC9 students to the BE20, its no harm letting them learn what a basic T instrument layout is, and how to fly an IF approach on needles rather that the new screens, moving maps and HUD's they'll have learned on since they joined.  Theres already a partly integrated GNS(you can couple it to the AP) and a standalone GPS installed.

In terms of a replacement, your logic is compelling, but Capital Expenditure is a big no-no, whereas current expenditure is ok within reason.  Its all about budgets; easier to spend $3m on a refurb than $1m on replacement. And dont blame the Air Corps; they're the rules used across all govt departments.

regards,
Freespeed

[GoneToTheCanner]

Freespeed
You raised a good point there.In the Marchetti days, the cadets got a solid grounding in IFR before being let loose on anything heavier.It made them respect the Basic Six.It is a fact that EFIS pilots, especially on Airbuses, have difficulty flying "steam" gauges later.The Beech will put manners on 'em.I hope they give 240 a decent retirement and buy a C90 or two, instead.
regards
GttC

[pilatus]

Quote (freespeed @ 24 Oct. 2005,14:33)

Pilatus/old redeye; The upgrade is in the estimates, but that doesnt mean it'll be sanctioned.  Its purely a cabin refurb, not an overhaul.  Although not the newest avionics, the aircraft is doing plenty of flying in the training role.  With the imminent arrival of PC9 students to the BE20, its no harm letting them learn what a basic T instrument layout is, and how to fly an IF approach on needles rather that the new screens, moving maps and HUD's they'll have learned on since they joined.  Theres already a partly integrated GNS(you can couple it to the AP) and a standalone GPS installed. In terms of a replacement, your logic is compelling, but Capital Expenditure is a big no-no, whereas current expenditure is ok within reason.  Its all about budgets; easier to spend $3m on a refurb than $1m on replacement. And dont blame the Air Corps; they're the rules used across all govt departments. regards, Freespeed

did you get those figures mixed up there?should it not be 1mil for upgrade and 3mil for new(ish)plane?

[Frank]

The figures are correct, freespeed was trying to say it's easier to spend money (in relation to the civil servants) on an upgrade that on a new piece of equipment.

[pilatus]

so if it is upgraded how long will i tlikely be in service for?

[freespeed]

Thanks Frank; spot on.  It was purely an example of the difference between current and capital expenditure

If 240 were upgraded, it would be around for the foreseeable future.  Thats probably the best estimate you're going to get.

Cheers,

Freespeed