Pakistan

[clan]

Is it possible, we will offer the useage of some A111's and a Dauphin with crews to Pakistans current crisis. I know they have asked for big Helicopters but i am sure any help will do.
With the imminent arrivel of the 2 EC135, it would not be leaving us short in the medium term. 3 A111's with crew and a Casa support unit should be able to help out.

[Fouga]

They said Heavy Lift only which means serious business we would want to have Chinooks....

[clan]

I did mention that in my thread hence the words "big helicopters". But they also said they needed all the help they can get, would they turn down 3 x A111's with crews if offered I doubt it. They are in serious bother at the moment and the situation is getting worse.

[Silver]

It's a good idea clan, but I can't see it happening - the govt would never seriously consider it .....they haven't the b#''s!

Plus AC tech crews have no experience of maintaining helis 'in the field' for long periods.

[FMolloy]

The money it would take to send A111's over there would do more good in the hands of relief agencies on the scene.

It was an unrealistic proposal during the tsunami & it's unrealistic now.

[Turkey]

'The money it would take to send A111's over there would do more good in the hands of relief agencies on the scene.'
I don't really agree with you there FM . If it were a case that helicopters were urgently needed then the expense of getting them there would be more then justified.
 But, and this[IMHO] is the real problem with such deployment proposals; in order to get the maximum possable use out of even as little as 3 machines, you have to send a lot of aircrew, there is no point in them being there if your pilots are time expired.
For a force as small as the Air Corps, doing this would seriously weaken the normal shedule of training and operations required.
So until there is an expansion of the Air Corps up to a more realistic level in both equipment and personall then such overseas adventures appear unlikely, just my 2 cent worth.....

[clan]

If the chap from Limerick came up with the idea, spoke to his commanding officers and they came up with Turkeys reasoning then maybe he would think to himself. We need to look into this, two more AB193's and associated personnel on order.
I certainly never thought it would be easy to send over crews and equipment but after the offer from the top brass after the Tsunami hit. I presumed the top brass did their sums on this and it was possible, however unlikely.

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi there
How much do you think it costs to dismantle say,three Alouettes, stick them into a hired IL-76, fly them all the way to Pakistan, reassemble them and them slot them into the PAKAF relief effort, including training crews to fly in a country where mountains are routinely over 18000 ft (from a country where few mountains are over 3000ft), in an environment that is suspicious of outsiders from word one, with technicians who have zero experience of sustained, rough-living, in-the-field maintenance, living in tents and/or containers and "Gandhi's Revenge" is only a mouthful of food away! You can't nip across the border for parts because the French would have a fit if you stuck Indian A3 bits on a French aircraft, even though they are supposed to be interchangeable) and the Pakistani Army would probably ground you, if not actually aim at you with something lethal. The A3 can only carry one stretcher at a time, when the whole area is saturated with casualties.The Pakistanis are using Mi8s as the baseline, so an A3 would be a waste of time and merely self-aggrandising to ship them out.Best thing to do: write a cheque to GOAL or CONCERN and let the really capable, experienced people deal with it.
regards
GttC  

[pilatus]

never mind the cost of shipping them out but more like how long would take to get every thing organised here and get it up and running over there?1-2weeks?it would prob be under control by then anyway!?the pakistanis have a111s aswell you know with french made spares so who says you would have to go across the border to india for any of it?

[clan]

All good Points GTTC, but how come we were willing and apparently able to send A111's to Asia after the Tsunami.
Bear with me on this, what if we had a natural disaster in Ireland, we could not cope for sure, we all know that. We would then ask the world for help. If the RAF said sorry chaps, all our Helicopters are in use, in Bosnia, Irag, Afganistan etc, the yanks sorry guys none spare we are stretched as it is, the French and Germans do not want to help because it is too wet in Ireland, the Swiss won't help cause we kicked their self important Ass's in the soccer. The Spainards and the Italians think the place is too overpriced and they are not used to flying over small mountains that are green and could easily confuse their pilots. And the little nations all send us over Tents, via An Post which get delayed because they go on strike as it is November and they had not had a decent strike all year.
It could happen, you know it could. Anyway it was only an idea. How ever unrealistic it was.  

[pilatus]

very imaginative of you anyway clan!but remember there is a squadron of pumas in the north along with lynx gazelle and chinnok detactchments and the RAF are not going to move them anywhere else any time soon!if there was a natural disaster here the government would order all civilian helis to be commandered and they would by air corps or coastguard pilots or possibly RAF pilots aswell!

[clan]

oH Yeah, forgot to add the Heli's in the North would not fly south as they Never Ever cross the Border plus Ian Paisley told them the Real IRA had surface to air missiles. And all the civilian helicopters were in Galway for the races. Which would not cancel the evening meeting because the disaster was in East coast and they thought serves them right.

On a serious note
The goverment has no legislation to commandeer private helicopter/Planes/cars or any other private equipment. Unless it is the product of illegal activity, or imported illegally..

[pilatus]

Quote (clan @ 11 Oct. 2005,04:59)

oH Yeah, forgot to add the Heli's in the North would not fly south as they Never Ever cross the Border plus Ian Paisley told them the Real IRA had surface to air missiles. And all the civilian helicopters were in Galway for the races. Which would not cancel the evening meeting because the disaster was in East coast and they thought serves them right. On a serious note The goverment has no legislation to commandeer private helicopter/Planes/cars or any other private equipment. Unless it is the product of illegal activity, or imported illegally..

RAF machines fly over the border all the time!plus any SAMs that wouldnt be a real threat as these helis are equipped with counter measures and flares enough to confuse most shoulder launched weapons!in an emergency the government would just make a law that says they do whatever they need to do to get the job done.but do you think civies are going to argue if air corps personel show up to comandeer their chopper so it can be used to save countless lives.?i think not!

[FMolloy]

A more realistic PDF response would be to send a field hospital and/or water treatment equipment plus the troops to man it.

[clan]

I like FMolloys idea, but I doubt that will happen either with the state of the Armys Medical Corp. But it would be a very good starting point or gesture if offered.
 Pilatus, I was joking you know. Com one you know how long it take the goverment to make a decision no matter how good. Anyway there would not be enough aircorp personnel to vist all the helicopter owners in Ireland never mind fly them. Plus they would not be rated on 99.9% of them and therefore unable to fly them. And if the " Disaster happened in Dublin, Baldonnell could have been wiped out ans so could a lot os service personnel, Did'nt thinkk of that one Did ya.

Anyway back to the topic, the A111's were offered to he countries affected by the Tsunami but we don't think they will be offered to Pakistan for varying practical and logistic reasons.