Garda EC135

[Dublin Spotter]

I was wondering as the New Air Corp EC135 have the ambulance suite as an option, what would it take to have this also an option for the Garda 135's.

I know that the Garda 135's are equipped with the "McAlpine Police suite", however these copter seem to be doing two jobs for most of the English Constabularies that have the 135 in use.

This would then Give Ireland a Air Ambulance unit equipped with 4 copters available at any one time. Depending of course on operational availability.

[pilatus]

Quote (Dublin Spotter @ 02 Nov. 2005,04:48)

I was wondering as the New Air Corp EC135 have the ambulance suite as an option, what would it take to have this also an option for the Garda 135's. I know that the Garda 135's are equipped with the "McAlpine Police suite", however these copter seem to be doing two jobs for most of the English Constabularies that have the 135 in use. This would then Give Ireland a Air Ambulance unit equipped with 4 copters available at any one time. Depending of course on operational availability.

wrong dublin spotter!how would they have four available at any one time even if they were all operational?do you think that 2garda choppers and 2air corps choppers are going to just be sitting on the ramp waiting for a call out for some guy who needs to be lifted to dublin for a transplant?i think not!they have other things to do apart from sitting on standby!but i would say they could be outfitted with the same kit as the corps!

[Silver]

This is something I have thought about, and raised here before.

I've often watched UK police documentaries which showed their helis attending, for example, car crashes ...and subsequently transporting casualties to hospital.

If it is possible for the police in the UK to do this (and is also the case in a lot of other countries!!), then why can't the GASU do likewise ??!!

We have had the GASU in operation since 1997 and yet we are still waiting for any sort of dedicated HEMS service to be set up.

I would guess that quite a few lives could have been saved in those eight years to date if the GASU were HEMS-equipped/tasked!    

[FMolloy]

Look at the Air Corp's experience of SAR & air ambulance. Up until recently it occupied a lot of the AC's meagre resources & time, to the detriment of military operations and training. The same would be true for the Garda ASU, it would be called off to accidents left, right & centre. The ASU is small unit, it could not perform it's primary mission if it was given an air ambulance role.

On top of that, there's the issue of medical expertise. Who would attend the patient while in flight? Does an EMT do it or would the Gardai? If it's left to the Gardai do they get extra training? Who pays for this training & extra costs?

I'd also say that involving the Gardai would result in the HSE or whoever saying that they needn't fund a dedicated service as someone is already doing it for them.

A proper, dedicated air medical service is what's needed in this case.

[Pink Panther]

Quote (FMolloy @ 07 Nov. 2005,03:54)

Look at the Air Corp's experience of SAR & air ambulance. Up until recently it occupied a lot of the AC's meagre resources & time, to the detriment of military operations and training. The same would be true for the Garda ASU, it would be called off to accidents left, right & centre. The ASU is small unit, it could not perform it's primary mission if it was given an air ambulance role. On top of that, there's the issue of medical expertise. Who would attend the patient while in flight? Does an EMT do it or would the Gardai? If it's left to the Gardai do they get extra training? Who pays for this training & extra costs? I'd also say that involving the Gardai would result in the HSE or whoever saying that they needn't fund a dedicated service as someone is already doing it for them. A proper, dedicated air medical service is what's needed in this case.

Fmolloy,
All fair and valid points.People should also remember that air ambulance and HEMS are two very different things.

[Hi Bypass]

A lot of good points raised in this thread,so here my 2cents worth.

I don't think the current GASU could cope with HEMS missions without police ops really suffering.Just doesn't have the resources.In my opinion the greater Dublin area needs a dedicated HEMS service.

But what about the rest of the country? I hear all you non Dubs shouting!  

I think Munster and Connaught would have the workload to suit a combined Garda-Ambo Heli sevice.From what I see on the TV from across the water the paramedic is a spare set of eyes in police ops and the cop is a spare set of hands in medical ops.Could mission equipped helis be leased from CHC?

[SousaTeuszii]

FMolloy,
I agree with all of your points.
I would however add that this country is not ready for a HEMS service. Look at other nations, they have an established ground ambulance service with paramedics who can carry out advanced life saving techniques. If you look at ninety percent of these documentries the heli is not the first responder its an ambulance. At present in many parts of this country you could die of old age before getting an ambulance and before you say it a HEMS service is not the answer. If you consider three aircraft in Ireland at a capital cost of 3.5 Million minimum plus about 1 mil per year per aircraft this is about 13.5 mil for a service that can only help 3 people at a time during resonable weather and mostly during the day. The money would be better spent on community ambulances services and training of paramedic crews. As for a dublin HEMS service, only one A&E hospital has a helipad and its a helicopter trap with all the cranes around it. Landing anywhere else requires an ambulance transfer and is therefore pointless.

[sealion]

GASU helis are like a flying patrol car. If I want to get to a hospital in a hurry, I would rather do it in the back of an ambulance, rather than the back of a patrol car.

[Optic]

Lifeline in Lucan are currently working with Sloane in the UK, and from what I am hearing the HEMS service will be funded through a charity, just like the 109E @ Coventry that is funded by the Princess of Wales Trust.

[sealion]

London HEMS Had a 365N Sponsored By Virgin Radio. Is it still active?

[Fouga]

Think so but wasnt she Painted bright yellow?

[SousaTeuszii]

Guys,
Just a quick question. At present civil organisations are not allowed to fly special VFR at night unless inside a control zone. The only exception to this is the SAR operators and the Air Corps. If these proposals are at an advanced stage does this mean that all civil operators will be allowed SVFR anywhere? after all this is the main stumbling point on the Police Air Ops manual and why the Air Corps is flying Garda helicopters. If they cant get exemption do you really believe a private air ambulance can.

[pilatus]

maybe this has been asked before in fact i know it was,just cant remember the answer!?is the AS355 going to be withdrawn once the new 135 is delivered!?