Dauphin upgrade?

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi all
Re: the Dauphins and their upgrade. Whilst it might be possible that a Dauphin or two will be kept airworthy for a limited period, I'd say that they are now regarded as an embarrassment and will be offloaded/scrapped/sold for spares before too long.It's technically posible to upgrade the EFIS and associated equipment to 2005 standard, but why bother? They've had almost 20 years worth out of them and they are too unique, in terms of equipment fit, to make them a viable resale item on the civil market.Personally, I'd rather see them refitted as pure VIP aircraft than simply thrown away.
regards
GttC

[clan]

Hi GTTC
         I agree with you about the Dauphins, tart them up so they could be used to ferry the suits around. No point using up good military aircraft to fly them to the official opening of an envelope. Plus I think they could use the gazelle for this role also or get some military use out it.
http://www.army.mod.uk/armyaircorps/gazelle.htm

A colleague of mine worked on the Gazelle in the Britsh Army, where they were nicknamed "Floppies" they could carry out full in the field repairs on the craft. As the pilots had a habit of damaging them. He says they were easy to work on and great workhorses.

[pilatus]

Quote (GoneToTheCanner @ 07 Nov. 2005,01:02)

Hi all Re: the Dauphins and their upgrade. Whilst it might be possible that a Dauphin or two will be kept airworthy for a limited period, I'd say that they are now regarded as an embarrassment and will be offloaded/scrapped/sold for spares before too long.It's technically posible to upgrade the EFIS and associated equipment to 2005 standard, but why bother? They've had almost 20 years worth out of them and they are too unique, in terms of equipment fit, to make them a viable resale item on the civil market.Personally, I'd rather see them refitted as pure VIP aircraft than simply thrown away. regards GttC

why would they be seen as an embarrassment? '>

[pym]

would it not be preferable to keep the number of different types in the inventory down?

from the little i know it sounds the dauphins need a huge, huge amount of work. if they could somehow be brought up to date, refurbished and stripped of that heavy search radar for a reasonable price, then by all means put them in VIP service. the reduced weight on board would ironically make them more useful then when they were new.

as for embarassament? maybe it's something to do with the anecdotal stuff i've heard about them reaking of fuel inside, the seeming fact that they were overweight, overspecified and all in all - a wasted opportunity, we could of gone for pumas

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi Pilatus
The Dauphins have not lived up to their promise.The failure to succeed as a naval aircraft and all that Pym has mentioned means that the next generation of helis absolutely have to work as advertised,so no overspecification, early-onset fatigue cracking, gross lack of servicability,overtorquing of engines and many other (reputation and)budget-killers.
regards
GttC

[SousaTeuszii]

Hi GttC,
I am afraid that the Dauphins lived up to what they were bought for originally but due to government cost cutting and bad usage they were doomed from the start. Let me explain. Two aircraft were orignally purchased as Naval Support aircraft and the Navy went to the expense of buying a ship with a heli deck. Some time later a fishing incident in Donegal lead to calls for a proper 24Hr SAR service. Instead of holding a seperate competition for new aircraft the government tagged on 3 more aircraft. This was the easy and quick but ultimitly flawed option. This machine was never designed for land based atlantic SAR. Meanwhile management in the Air Corps now had a new priority, SAR. As the Dauphin avionics began to give trouble (not the airframe or engines) the two aircraft fitted for naval work were pulled from them more and more as SAR back ups. The Navy got no aircraft and rightly so felt hard done by. Therefore as long as the Air Corps have control of aviation assets intended for Naval use you will never see another naval vessel with a heli deck.
In my opinion the Dauphins should have avionic downgrades, be fitted with harpoon deck systems and handed to the Navy for their use under their control. I would even advocate that the Navy train their own pilots and maintenance crews either through the Air Corps (Now that they have spare capacity) or through the Royal Navy until they get themselves setup.
As for the the King Air it should be scrapped. If its primary role is twin engine training then buy a twin engine trainer and stop wasting money. A lear jet was bought to replace it and a new one will cost about the price of 10 new twin engine trainers. Now that that monkey is off my back what do you all think?

[Fouga]

Your right in fact im amazed that we got 3 pages out of an aircraft that never really entered our heads until this post started. She should be scrapped.

[pilatus]

Quote (SousaTeuszii @ 08 Nov. 2005,05:26)

Hi GttC, I am afraid that the Dauphins lived up to what they were bought for originally but due to government cost cutting and bad usage they were doomed from the start. Let me explain. Two aircraft were orignally purchased as Naval Support aircraft and the Navy went to the expense of buying a ship with a heli deck. Some time later a fishing incident in Donegal lead to calls for a proper 24Hr SAR service. Instead of holding a seperate competition for new aircraft the government tagged on 3 more aircraft. This was the easy and quick but ultimitly flawed option. This machine was never designed for land based atlantic SAR. Meanwhile management in the Air Corps now had a new priority, SAR. As the Dauphin avionics began to give trouble (not the airframe or engines) the two aircraft fitted for naval work were pulled from them more and more as SAR back ups. The Navy got no aircraft and rightly so felt hard done by. Therefore as long as the Air Corps have control of aviation assets intended for Naval use you will never see another naval vessel with a heli deck. In my opinion the Dauphins should have avionic downgrades, be fitted with harpoon deck systems and handed to the Navy for their use under their control. I would even advocate that the Navy train their own pilots and maintenance crews either through the Air Corps (Now that they have spare capacity) or through the Royal Navy until they get themselves setup. As for the the King Air it should be scrapped. If its primary role is twin engine training then buy a twin engine trainer and stop wasting money. A lear jet was bought to replace it and a new one will cost about the price of 10 new twin engine trainers. Now that that monkey is off my back what do you all think?

scrapped!?dont be stupid!what would be the point of scrapping her?i know she has seen better days but she still has a bit of life in her!she could be used for some other role or perhaps she could be polished up and sold on the civie market!she might not be worth much maybe 100,000 or 200,000 but its better than scrapping her!

as regards navy heli ops,thats an interesting one,people might say ireland is to small to operating two military aviation branches as it would be too costly but if the army is to be operating these UAVs that are to be bought then i cant see why the navy should not be allowed to field its own helicopter unit.

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi Souza
I agree with a lot of what you are saying.The Dauphins did suffer from airframe trouble, given that the AC had no composite repair experience or equipment for it's repair and there was one occasion when a French expert had to called in to repair extensive cracking in the tailbooms.Also, the engines went thru a phase of regular overtorquing until the pilots gained sufficient experience in their handling.The Naval thing was a disaster and should have been run as an entirely Naval operation from Day 1.The same applies to the Garda operation of the Squirrel/EC135.
240 is essentially worthless in the civvie market and should be kept as a pure trainer/liaison/air ambulance aircraft. It's serviceablility is quite good so ME training shouldn't be routinely affected, if they operate an intelligent MEL, that is.
regards
GttC

[Fouga]

BTW a Dauphin passed over my house today in the Newcastle Area of Galway City @ 15:28PM very low and very fast was so welcome to hear one of them again such a lovely noise!

[clan]

Sousa, totally agree with the navy operating there own helicopters and the down grading of the dauphins. I mentioned it before and got a backlash. But with the Eithne no longer able to accept aircraft, unless she is brought back up to spec it is a no goer. Unless the new ship the Navy is talking about is allowed its own Naval operated helicopters which I presume is still a no no as far as the air corps is concerned. The GASU should be as GTTC pointed out, run by the guards for the guards. But this is Ireland and nothing is like it should be.

[sealion]

I understand the biggest opposition to the Gardai flying their own GASU aircraft came from the Air Corps.

[FMolloy]

Is there still a need for a Dauphin on Eithne? I was told that the introduction of the CASA's made the need redundant.

[Fouga23]

Bring them to me. I have a few tools here. Unbolt something there, cut something here, et voila: light-weight dauphin ready to be fitted for VIP. There's a garage nearby that has some second-hand leather seats from an MG-F for sale  

[clan]

I am bloody handy at making cars lightweight, I am sure I could do a job on a Dauphin. I know of a chap in Mayo going to build a helicopter sim, using an ex British Army Gazelle airframe. All the drawings done, prices got for parts etc etc. Hopefully he goes through with it.