Contract Maritime Patrol?

[Old Redeye]

Cobham Named for A$1bn Australian Coastwatch Contract
  
  
 Cobham plc is delighted to announce that National Air Support company Surveillance Australia Pty Ltd, part of the Cobham Services Division, has been named preferred bidder for the twelve year A$1bn Australian Coastwatch contract.  
 
Cobham is the current provider of aerial Civil Maritime Surveillance services to the Australian Customs Service, which is the largest programme of its type in the world.  
 
Under the new contract Cobham will provide, operate and maintain an updated fleet of ten Dash 8 aircraft through to the year 2020, starting in January 2008. If successful in being awarded the contract it will be Cobham's biggest ever single order and is a major milestone in an exacting three year tender process.  
 
The new service based on Bombardier Dash 8 aircraft will double the fleet of fully electronic surveillance aircraft available under the existing contract from five to ten. The aircraft will provide all-weather, day and night electronic surveillance of Australia's maritime Exclusive Economic Zone to detect and deter illegal activity such as drug and people smuggling, illegal fishing and environmental offences.  
 
Allan Cook, Cobham Chief Executive, said:  
 
''We are delighted Surveillance Australia has been selected as preferred provider to meet the Australian government’sfuture surveillance needs. This has the potential to be an extremely prestigious contract that would underline Cobham's surveillance expertise in an increasingly demanding network-centric environment. This is a major milestone in the programme and we are working closely with the Australian Customs Service to finalise a contract which will operate until 2020.''

[SousaTeuszii]

To answer the question,
YES!!

The Air Corps have not provided a credable service. With two aircraft the Air Corps provide less the 1800 Hrs per year and 1.5 hr of each flight is over land!! Provincal Airlines provide the Canadian government with 3 SKA 200s that provide 5000 Hrs per year!!!
The Air Corps DO NOT provide an on call service 24hr per day. They only respond IF a crew can be found, so if lost at sea between the hours of 1630 and 0830 your on your own or waiting for a Nimrod.
More Nimrods respond to SAR calls every year then the CASAs do.
Im sorry to rant but this sorry affair is a pet hate of mine.
Personnally I couldnt give a fiddlers about fish but these aircraft in the hands of a civilian company, bound by contractual obligations, could save lives. They never will sitting the the hanger in Baldonnel.

[pilatus]

if the corps had another pair of casas and were based at shannon or cork,they would be able to provide a top class service and wouldnt have the 90mins over land sprint to make!but the key word here is "if"!?

[SousaTeuszii]

Hi Pilatus,
Unfortunately airframe numbers have nothing to do with this. No 1 Operations Wings priority is MATS. They dont have the crew to fly 2 aircraft on a working day service never mind 4 aircraft on a 24hr service. Only last week a SAR top cover operation was cancelled due to lack of crew, guess who stepped up to the mark yet again. I also believe that if they did have the crew they may not have the inclination. Add to this that for considerable amounts to time the aircraft have flown with no FLIR or search Radar and the whole operation is questionable.
As for Shannon the Casas should never have been based in Baldonnel. They are a maritime patrol asset and should be close to where 90% of their taskings take place, i.e. the west coast.

[Fouga]

Quote (SousaTeuszii @ 11 Dec. 2005,00:33)

the aircraft have flown with no FLIR or search Radar and the whole operation is questionable.

Dont they have FLIR on the nose? Just near enough to where the main nose gear is housed?

How about 1 Casa at Donegal, 1 Casa at Shannon, and 1 Casa at Cork, and 1 Casa at Bal?

[pym]

Perhaps he is saying that the aircraft have gone on maritime patrol missions without those rather neccessary pieces of equipment working/without the full crew

And it that IS the case it's a damning indictment of the air corps attitude

[Old Redeye]

Sousa makes some compelling points.  particularly regarding insufficinet pilot numbers - a critical if often overlooked aspect of IAC capabilities improvement.  Seems to me the correct course of action if to contract Maritime patrol under the Coast Guard, with substanital funding assistance form the EU, then sell off the 235MPA's - to Colombia via CASA? -redirecting the resources, particularly people, to establishing a credible airlift capability with a C-130J-30 or a pair of CASA 295's.

[pilatus]

and what is wrong with the radars and sensors that they were not on board the aircraft?if maritime patrol was contracted out the casas would just be stripped of their current fit and used as transports!just like the Alouettes when SAR ended their winches were removed and they were moved to army support duties!

[The Blue Max]

Bless ya Auld Redie your still about tour C-130J-30 (And Rightly So) but there is a a different option to just selling off the excellent CASAs instead because of the lack of pilots ther should just be a larger intake of cadets over the next couple of years would help solve the problem (which was due to done followinf the purchase of the Sirkosky S92s there was to a lager cadet class that year to meet the extra demand which the IAC taught would be placed on pilot number because they would be operating the new advanced SAR service (And possibe TTT roles if the Two S92s on option were purchased)
This in my opinion would offer a much better decsion than just getting rid of one of the most publibly well known assets in IAC service aswell as the the most operational squadron too, (If anyone was lucky enough to read the Sundat Worlds excellent 16page pull out on the Defence Forces yesterday in covers alot about all elaments of the IAC and it different assets inculding a big piece on the CASAs)

[davephelan]

am i totally wrong in thinking that most pilots look to get on the casa, so it may lead to the G4 etc, and then an early retirement to join ryanair or aerlingus? the MPA service should be put out to contract or alternatively, what about an air force reserve, allowing pilots to leave, but still be used to fulfil the hours required .an ideal situation might be 2-3 aircraft based in shannon , manned by full time crews, with 2 aircraft based in baldonnel, flown by reserves. afterall most of the ex IAC pilots flyiong for ryanair/aerlingus , probably live in the greater dublin area

[Old Redeye]

Bless you Blue.

CHC, the major off-shore oil and contract SAR helicopter company, has started a FW division with DASH 8's.  Initially this will be for oil field support in places like Nigeria and Indonesia, and for UN-type support in places like Africa and the Middle East, but will spin off into a CG MPA/SAR branch once the market is identified.  For example, the UK is about to PFI all SAR helicopter ops - RAF, RN & CG = some 48 aircraft, and CHC is a likely winner.  

Pilatus et al:  Better to sell-off or trade-in the 235's if MP is discontinued.  Would add about $US20 million to the pot for the purchase of 1-2 new, purpose-built airlifters.  Believe me, there would be more interest from pilots in flying a new airlifter on international segments than there is now for droning around over the Atlantic on fisheries patrol. In terms of resume value, international segments trumps fisheries patrol every time.

[SousaTeuszii]

[/QUOTE]Believe me, there would be more interest from pilots in flying a new airlifter on international segments than there is now for droning around over the Atlantic on fisheries patrol. In terms of resume value, international segments trumps fisheries patrol every time.

And right there gentlemen is the crux of the problem. The Air Corps have no interest in providing a credable service. The personnel there get the same pay if they provide a service or not, there is no incentive to perform. A commercial company who gets fined for not providing set goals, ie yearly flight hours or that all onborad equipment works, has to provide a required service or loose money. The DCMNR have no big stick to hit the Air Corps with and it seems to me that the Air Corps arent interested in carrots, just plodding along as the MPA service currently does.
Old Redeye, the CHC fixed wing operation is likely to be a hangover from the purchase of Schriener in Holland. CHC are in fact rationalising their services to offshore and oil industry only, hence the recent sale of a South American derivitive.
Max, bringing in more Cadets swells the bottom end but will have no effect on the experienced command postions for at least five years.
PYM, correct the CASAs did carry all the equipment but for a lot of the time it did not work. I believe the radar is no longer in production and hard to support leaving the protions of flight over water to Mark I eyeball on many flights! Despite this I have heard that attempts to refit the sensors were shelved in favour of a needless avionics upgrade.
Please do not feel I am trying to bring down the good work that the Air Corps do but this needs to be sorted. It cannot be sorted with more or new aircraft, it cannot be sorted with new sensors, it requires the willpower of those in charge to make it happen, nothing more nothing less. I am however afraid that the willpower isnt there and if 100% cannot be given to a potentially life saving service then it should be handed to somebody who can give 100%.
 

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi all
Perhaps the AC should reorganise their pilot/aircrew rostering arrangements, for a start.There is no shortage of pilots in the Don;there never was.(witness the number of them that came out of the woodwork when their flying pay was threatened a few years ago)Fully qualified skippers may be thin on the ground, but it's up to the Don to use them effectively.As for the Casa's mission equipment, from day one, they have flown with U/S Flirs or belly radars or have grounded one to scavenge to keep the other flying.Personally, I'd stick one in Cork or Carrickfin or Sligo.
The reality is that pilots don't want to spend all their career slugging around at low-level over the sea, if a slot becomes available on the Lear or G4.Who could blame them!? As for airline flying after their Don service, well, what else would you have them do? The airlines like exmilitary pilots because they have experience, especially command experience and often plenty of Multi-Engine,Turbine and Instrument flight under their belts.Of course, the "old pals act" applies, in just the same fashion as it applies to Ex-Techies.
The Don would serve itself better if it absorbed the lessons learnt from civil operators (who have had to learn the hard way,too) and applied them ,instead of acting as if their brand of aviation is absolutely unique in the annals of flight.Civvies are efficient because they operate to the bottom line and soon discard anything that doesn't contribute to that.If the Don actually listened to civvie operators,and adopted some civvie practises, they would get more out of their men and their aircraft.
regards
GttC

[Old Redeye]

Souza,

ref "the CHC fixed wing operation is likely to be a hangover from the purchase of Schriener in Holland. CHC are in fact rationalising their services to offshore and oil industry only"

-- CHC is taking on the SAR market head on as witness their latest UK contract and their hopes to eventually win the bigger joint SAR contract, 48+ aircraft, covering all of the UK, including NI.  That will inevitably lead to discussions on extending coverage to the Republic.  Also, as has been pointed out on this forum already, RAF NImrods conduct the majority of maritime FW SAR responses in the UK/Ireland area.  Nimrods are now drawing down as part of an upgrade that will eventually produce a smaller fleet of only about 12 aircraft.  Given smaller numbers to bear on world-wide taskings, their incredibly high operating costs, and the operational problemss associated with operating from a single base in the north of Scotland,.....look for increasing interest in a contractor operated FW SAR/Law Enforcement MPA platform for the UK.  Probably something along the lines of the imminent SAR helo contract, in which RAF and RN SAR flights will operate contractor owned and maintained aircraft with mixed contractor/RN/RAF aircrew.

Cheers

[SousaTeuszii]

Old Redeye,
I couldnt agree with you more about the FW operations. They will eventually go to civil contractors. However, firstly, the RAF Nimrod and any other top cover operation is not part of the 2012 UK SAR integration proposal nor will it be. The UK already contract the Fishery patrol aspect of this operation but do not provide SAR top cover, except if already in the area. It is likely that if the RAF stand down these operators will be in a good position to provide dual role operations. This however could lead to the DCMNR having to pay from UK civil top cover in Irish operations. No more freebes!
Secondly, CHC is rationalising to offshore and oil industry operations. SAR is considered an offshore operation. Although from time to time it may rescue people over land or do air ambulance operations its primary focus is at the offshore maritime sector. Its controlling authority are the Marine Rescue Coordination Centres and the contracting authority is the Dept of Marine. It is therefore a marine operation and considered as such by CHC.