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Author Topic: CASA's pass the 20,000 flight hours mark  (Read 2130 times)

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Offline SousaTeuszii

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CASA's pass the 20,000 flight hours mark
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2006, 07:57:33 pm »
In all seriousness this upgrade is a waste of money!

The radar cannot see through the inky black night if......
The FLIR cannot find the missing fisherman if......
The new comms cannot relay messages for the SAR crew sitting at 40ft at 200nm if.......

.....the aircraft are sitting in the hanger and the crews all went home at 1630!

The aircraft are fine, the radars need upgrading, the FLIR is never used. But none of this matters if the Air Corps dont get off their laurals and utilise them properly. 'thumbsdown'
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Offline sealion

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CASA's pass the 20,000 flight hours mark
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2006, 09:24:44 pm »
Quote (Frank @ 10 Feb. 2006,11:31)
The Air Corps CASA's have achieved 20,000 flight hours since their delivery in Dec 1994 and to mark the event 252 flew in formation with 253 over Baldonnel.




Regards,

Frank.

Seems pretty clear to me. December 1994 is when the CASA CN235-MPA entered service.
As you well know souza, for every hour the CASA flies, it spends X amount of hours in maintenance.

Take out the calculator again. I know with your vast expertise I don't need to tell you how many hours downtime these aircraft require for every flight hour... 'stir_the_pot'
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Offline GoneToTheCanner

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CASA's pass the 20,000 flight hours mark
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2006, 09:37:22 pm »
Hi all
a couple of points: the Casas total flight hours at least represents a decent level of utility per annum of it's aircraft, compared to times past when some aircraft barely made 100 hrs/p.a. Remember, at one time, with the exception of the MATS aircraft, the busiest aircraft in the fleet were the Cessnas! (at one time, AC pilot annual hours dropped to the sub-200s and older pilots were being sent to Gormo to build up time on the Cessnas to stay current)They'll never come close to the average utility of a civil airliner (8 hrs/day) but what they've done isn't bad, either....I'd imagine the proposed upgrade would have to take place during a "C" check in Spain, unless the new kit is modular enough to be a drop-in replacement for the older stuff....Somebody made the point about anti-submarine capability.The Casa dump racks for dinghy-launching and the flare launch tube are perfectly capable of launching items of a more military nature, such as sonobuoys.It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to imagine someone rolling a depth charge off the ramp, if they had to.
regards
GttC
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Offline pym

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CASA's pass the 20,000 flight hours mark
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2006, 05:17:47 am »
Comparisons schmarisons, lets compare like with like...

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2004/May/Coast_Guard.htm

Quote
The Coast Guard is expected to fly the CASA 235 about 1,200 hours per year—twice much as the existing patrol aircraft.


300 more hours a year, there's got to be a reason for this discrepency.

Quote
With nearly 11 hours endurance, the CASA 235 nearly matches the performance of the C-130 at lower operating costs.




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Offline SousaTeuszii

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CASA's pass the 20,000 flight hours mark
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2006, 08:04:29 am »
Hi Sealion,
I think there is a mix up here. Frank states the CASAs have flown 20,000hrs since their arrival in 1994. He does not however state MPA aircraft only. It is my understanding that the hours on 250 are included in the total Air Corps CASA flight hours, i.e. 20,000 hrs. Now Franks not often wrong and I may stand corrected on this, in the mean time I will hold off on the calculations as my mobile phone battery is getting a bit low 'pilot_cheesy'
As for the maintenance of the Air Corps fleet it is hard to keep an operation running when most of the techs go home at 1630. Its not their fault that they work in an ancient system that does not allow shift work but honestly who could maintain a fleet with a 6 hr day 5 days a week!
It is also a concern that no pilots or SAROs are ever on call out of hours for emergencies. I could forgive the low hours if the aircraft were at least in operational readiness.  'pilot_sad'

Pym,
The performance in endurance may be alike (do they figure in shutting down two engines in the c130 ala US coastguard) however I would love to see a cheap and chearful CASA 235 take off with a C130s payload. That would be entertaining! wouldnt like to live at the end of the runway though.
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Offline Frank

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CASA's pass the 20,000 flight hours mark
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2006, 09:46:12 am »
Hi Guys,

The information I provided in the first post regarding hours was an edited version of this exact text which was provided with the pictures:

Quote
252 in formation with 253 over Baldonnel to mark the achievement of 20,000 hours flown since their delivery in Dec 1994.


My take on this text is that the figures only include 252 & 253, 250 was delivered on 06/06/91 and returned to CASA on the 16/01/95.


Regards,

Frank.
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Offline SousaTeuszii

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CASA's pass the 20,000 flight hours mark
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2006, 12:11:24 pm »
Thanks Frank, I stand corrected.
Thats still just about 2.5 hrs per aircraft per day and no on call service. It is not value for the tax payers shillings and unfortuately a 12.5 mil upgrade wont do anything to enhance that.
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Fouga

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CASA's pass the 20,000 flight hours mark
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2006, 08:09:56 pm »
Thats true Sousa but its out of our hands and its going ahead regardless



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Offline GoneToTheCanner

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CASA's pass the 20,000 flight hours mark
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2006, 09:48:42 pm »
Hi Souza
With regard to hours worked by the technical staff in the Don,don't forget that no mechanism exists to pay them overtime as no such concept exists in the PDF.Techs do recieve duty money for after-hours work but it is peanuts compared to actual overtime.There are early or late "shifts" for some techs, but that is essentially a local arrangement and not necessarily DF policy.There is no formal structure for night maintenance, so it goes on, but on an ad-hoc basis, i.e, the GIV might get a wheel-change done by the duty crew, rather than wait for the "day" people to show up. Also, there has always been reluctance at personnel level to carry out a shift-style arrangement without the appropriate pay and conditions being in place beforehand.It wasn't unknown for people to work up huge amounts of lieu days and then be refused them, after the work is done...the RAF, by comparison, have had shifts at it's deep maintenance centres for years.Perhaps the DoD should look to the UK for guidance.
regards
GttC
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Offline SousaTeuszii

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CASA's pass the 20,000 flight hours mark
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2006, 04:07:22 pm »
Hi GTTC,
I couldnt agree more. As I said its not their fault they work in an ancient system. I believe the biggest problem is how you can pay techs a shift allowance when the infantry are on the ground for 24hrs and get nothing. It is a hard question to answer but nobody is even looking at it. I am afraid its the otstrich syndrome all over again.
Perhaps one item for the Air Corps to note is that the Customs have just sailed into DF territory by purchasing their new boat (ship, whatever). If the Air Corps do not get their act together and provide a credable service the DCMNR WILL replace them. Its only a matter of time!
ST
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Offline Frank

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CASA's pass the 20,000 flight hours mark
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2006, 10:31:58 pm »
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Offline SARMAN

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CASA's pass the 20,000 flight hours mark
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2006, 02:14:34 pm »
I agree with what seems to be the majority here it is very hard for the Corps to pay tech crews shift allowance and it is also very hard to get tech crews to do shifts getting pence for doing it my gut feeling is that it is a serious rock and a hard place  '<img'>
But if the Corps where serious about maritime and SAR top cover then they will have to do something about it, very soon there is going to be a void out there because in the not to distant future the UK's nimrod fleet is being sized down and it will become increasingly harder for the ICG to get nimrod's for top cover thus what will they be looking to use, yes you guest it the only thing they have at there disposal the good old CASA's and Pat the Cope should be on the case soon enough!!!!
The CASA's are ideal for top cover and in my experience a very valuable aid to finding the vessel etc..
The only problem being who is going to tell the lads to have an on call system   'pilot_shocked'
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Offline SousaTeuszii

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CASA's pass the 20,000 flight hours mark
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2006, 12:07:47 pm »
SARMAN,
Couldnt agree more. The nimrods are already reverted to 2 hr callout!
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Fouga

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CASA's pass the 20,000 flight hours mark
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2006, 06:49:54 pm »
Quote (SARMAN @ 17 Feb. 2006,05:14)
the UK's nimrod fleet is being sized down

 Pat the Cope should be on the case soon enough!!!!

They are also being upgraded!

BTW why is he called Pat "The Cope" Gallagher, it sounds so unprofessional and childish 'thumbsdown'



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Offline Tech Crew

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CASA's pass the 20,000 flight hours mark
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2006, 10:54:54 am »
As far as i know his father started a co op shop years ago and was subsequently called The Cope. The name was then passed on to him. Sounds mad but i heard an article recently on the radio and from what i can remember this was the reason given for his name
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