AIR CORPS SAR TO END !

[BoB]

ha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe.hohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohoh
ohohohohohohohohohohohohohoho............O dear I think my sides have split.  '>

[FMolloy]

Glad to see you're happy.

Now try posting something useful, instead of wasting time & bandwidth.

[FiannaFail]

An end of an era but a new one begins....I have said it numerous times on previous treads that we should not be involved in SAR as it is a distraction to our military role which now can be developed more fully.  Michael Smith has made an excellent decision.  Now what is everyone's choice of new chopper?
FiannaFail '>

[n-e-foo]

Yup I meant the Dauphins, I didn't mean rip apart the S-61n :/

The doorway isnt exactly condusive to allowing troops pour on and off on the S-61n anyway in the troop transport tole, compared to RAF Seakings

[BoB]

totally agree with fianna fail. its time for the air corp to start getting serious about the military role . but before all that utility stuff, lets have ourselves a fair trial followed by a first class hanging. in the dock this week has to be the middle and senior management of heli sqn. a lesson to everyone in how not to run a sar operation and  in disgusting man management. followed by next week in the dock judus the winch op. who sold out for four over nights and a pint with the management in a south side pub. and finally the geriatric fusiliers who were wheeled out of the hangar on the promise of a new colostomy bag. you know who you are.

on a  serious note all of the above are guility of a serious breach of flight safety. they all should have known better and thankfully the plug was pulled before anyone was hurt or killed.    '>

[BoB]

Hmmm....so to sum up! You agree that the Air Corps management needs looking at. You agree that the Sligo operation is 'Safer' in Civil hands & to cap it all you're waving a veiled threat under my nose!? Absolute bargain!! I look forward to the reaping! (oooooh & apparently I'm hostile!?)

Deficit of equipment?? Um....the equipment in use was identical, & in some cases superior, to that used by the civilian run bases.......I believe the safety concerns were in the way the operation was run at the front of the machine, not in the equipment!!!?
High turnover of staff?? I can't imagine why...........

Oh & my 'high & mighty' tone IS fact!  
But then you'd recognise the tone....wouldn't you!

As for apparent angry replies.....maybe I type badly....I've no reason to be angry....quite the opposite, I'm delighted!

Civil discussion or trading insults.....up to you!?

[Silver]

Confusion reigns !

The Air Corp will still be involved in SAR

From today's Irish Independent ;
"Mr. Smith said the Air Corps would continue to train personnel to SAR standards, and would be available to the Coast Guard".

From today's Irish Times ;
"The new aircraft (light helis) would help the Air Corps provide support to the Army and provide additional support in the areas of surveillance, airlift, inshore rescue, medevac, air ambulance, island relief and hospital transfers said the Minister".      

So the Air Corps WILL continue to be involved in SAR   '>

BoB,

first of all.....welcome to the forum.
To my opinion FF is wrong.
SAR is a military task for sure as is it for "civillian" organisations.

Ever thought of C-SAR??

Let's imagine this: ( and I realy hope it'll stay fiction)
An Irish heli deployment patroling over Kosovo is under attack by the Serbs.
Heli shot down, aircrew alive but in "enemy" territory.
Who will get these people out of there?

A "Civ" company?'>?


I don't think so, Pal !!!

Guinness

[FMolloy]

BoB,

Try looking up FF's previous posts, she claims to have been everything from a GovJet pilot to one of the Fouga pilots who escorted the Pope into Dublin. We have great difficulty believing anything she says.

As for civil discussion, is that how you class your comments to Guinness?

[n-e-foo]

A case of Jack of all trades, master of none? Nothing new then... Plus will this mean the continuation of dayglow coloured helicopters in the troop transport role, surely somethings wrong with that?!

At least there has already been a change of attitude to the 'military roles'. Some people have emerged blinking into the sunlight after years of having their heads stuck up their butts looking for a way to compete with civil companies with massive resources. They were never going to win without the absolute backing of the government. Shall we now get down to the serious business of doing all the stuff that the law prohibits civies from doing, and do it properly from the start? The personnel and skill set are already in place. All that is required is a defined role and the balls from the army to insist that an organic helicopter support force travel with overseas deployments now and in the future.

[Imshi-Yallah]

What veiled threat? I said if you're rude and hostile to people then they wont like you, exactly what sort of threat am I making there?

Hands up children who thinks BoB is being hostile?
Also I'd like an itemised list of the superior equipment that was available.

[BoB]

dear mr fmolloy . calm down. never loose your sense of humour. god knows the sligo operation has supplied us all with a bit of a laugh. but on a serious note it was stopped before some one got killed, and thats not an overaction. what i want to know is what will happen to all the 61 trained personnel. will they be welcomed back to the don with open arms .dont think so. how much is a removal van from sligo to dublin.?      I admit this is a bit childish but......hehehehehehehehehe,hahahahahahahah,hohohohohohohohohohohho................... my god i almost wet myself  '>

[BoB]

Hello Guinness...'Pal'

Firstly....where did anyone on this board ever suggest that Combat SAR was anything other than a military role? When did anyone suggest that the Irish Coastguard should assume responsibility for downed military pilots around the world?? Unless I've missed the point here we've been discussing SAR that falls within the remit of the Irish Coastguard....that means SAR not Combat SAR! & Let's be frank....the Air Corp have completely messed up SAR! There's no point in trying to argue....they have!
Now the Government haven't been the best in terms of providing machines etc. But oppurtunities have been given to the Air Corps to remain in SAR & they blew it! They blew it big! The Civvies do it better.....be a man, stand up & admit it! Everyone knows it....it's well proven, documented & fact! Or didn't the Air Corps lose all it's SAR bases to the Civvies??? Um....Er....I think they did!!
Now....onto to combat SAR. At present aren't the Irish Military deployments in various theatre's of operation around the world, being flown around by heli crews from other nations?? Or do they have Irish Helicopters in theatre? Um...I reckon they're being flown by other Nations. Who, therefore, will be providing CSAR cover!? Which kind of negates your point...don't you think?
Now....supposing in the future the Irish defence Forces do detach with integral Helicopter support & one unfortunately goes down.....I agree absolutely that the CSAR role should be fulfilled by the military. However, I still perceive the combat SAR being provided by the United Nations forces that the Irish Defence Forces are attached to, rather than by themselves.
Do CSAR aircraft require the same level of equipment as a Coastguard SAR machine does? No...not in the SAR sense of the word as their primary role is extraction, get the guys the hell out of there!!!!!! As such, General Purpose machines & crews are fit for task.
The Air Corps should be supported by the Governement. But I would suggest that in order to survive this latest fiasco it needs to take a long hard look at it's structure & make a few changes! The most recent two failures in SAR can be accounted to the same hierachy.....there seems to be a pattern forming!
The Air Corps has lost face. It's lost face because those in a position of authority have consistently refused to accept responsibility for their failings & have instead abused their positions & abused their authority.
I hope you get your Utility Machines, but I'd suggest that they too will be mismanaged until a proper internal investigation is run into the real reasons that so many Air Corps projects fail.
One final question....if the Air Corps is so good....why are so many of their pilots & winch crews now working for civilian companies??

Merry Christmas 'Pal'

& Scorpy....I couldn't agree more! Happy Christmas!

[Frank]

Hi Guys,

I'm asking nicely for everyone to calm down and stop taking pot shots at each other.  Otherwise I'll have to close the thread.

It's nice to see that there are still people out there that are passionate about the Air Corps and what it should and shouldn't be or do, but please don't vent your frustrations on other members.

As for Fianna Fail, he / she has been warned and to be fair as far as I can see the comments have been calmed down.  However saying that, what seems harmless to me can be seen in a totally different light by someone else so I would encourage you to use the "Report this post to a moderator" link rather than have public argument.

I'll leave it at that, Happy Christmas to you all,


Regards,

Frank.