Irish PC-9s to Cottesmore 7/12?

[Irish251]

Reported on the MSF e-mail list:

"Seen this morning at 1030 and 1045 were two grey PC-9s working East Mids and descending towards Cottesmore. I would hazard a guess at IAC aircraft. Callsigns were Viking 65 and 66."


These were later confirmed as serials 265 and 266.  The alleged "Viking" callsign could have been a mis-hearing of "Irish 265/266" but it would be interesting to have clarification on this point.

[Fouga]

The RAF operate 1 or 2 PC9's, 1 of them is called "Percy".

[Silver]

Any pics of the RAF PC-9's?

......I didnt know they operated any?!

[pym]

And they also operate ex Luftwaffe Alpha Jets  

Something I only discovered recently

[Irish251]

BAe Warton operate two PC-9s and these wear military marks, probably to allow them to carry weapons.  Serials are ZG969 and ZK119 - however neither is grey in colour.

[Silver]

Quote (pym @ 09 Dec. 2006,07:00)

And they also operate ex Luftwaffe Alpha Jets   Something I only discovered recently

Yeah, I was aware of the Alpha Jets....but not of the PC-9's.

[markd]

Quote

These were later confirmed as serials 265 and 266.  The alleged "Viking" callsign could have been a mis-hearing of "Irish 265/266" but it would be interesting to have clarification on this point.

Shortfinals,

I heard Viking 66 climbing out of Baldonnel on Thursday morning heading east over the Irish Sea. It was definetely Viking and not Irish.

Regards,
Mark Dwyer
www.flyinginireland.com

[pilatus]

i believe the PC9s and Alpha jets are mainly operated out of Boscombe down which s the RAFs research base if you like,they were evaluate and test upgrade configurations.One of the PC9s is an ex Saudi aircraft which was included as part of a research contract to test certain parts or specs of a potential upgrade of the Sauid Tornado fleet.im not sure about the other PC9?the alphas were bought by the RAF to evaluate them against the British hawk in which the hawk emerged as the winner of that evaluation.they have all sorts of aircraft at boscombe, including a venerable Havard trainer from WW2 which is still carrying out that role to this day which is quite an achievement!

[Irish251]

Quote (pilatus @ 11 Dec. 2006,02:31)

the alphas were bought by the RAF to evaluate them against the British hawk in which the hawk emerged as the winner of that evaluation.

The Alpha Jets were former Luftwaffe aircraft which became available when the whole German fleet of type was withdrawn from service.  They have been used primarily to replace types such as the Hunter, which were very long in the tooth by the time they came to be retired.

I’m not sure what you mean by the Alpha Jet being evaluated against the Hawk - it's far more likely that they would have liked more Hawks, a type they already operated at DRA/Qinetiq, but that the cheaper option of used Alpha Jets won out.  Attrition of the original RAF purchase of 175 Hawks has meant that the available fleet of the type has been spread more thinly across a range of roles which, in addition to fast jet and weapons training and some test work, now includes such duties such as target-towing and fleet facilities for the Royal Navy.

PS: Mark, thanks for that confirmation on the callsign.

[pym]

Quote (Short finals @ 11 Dec. 2006,13:31)

Quote (pilatus @ 11 Dec. 2006,02:31) the alphas were bought by the RAF to evaluate them against the British hawk in which the hawk emerged as the winner of that evaluation. The Alpha Jets were former Luftwaffe aircraft which became available when the whole German fleet of type was withdrawn from service.  They have been used primarily to replace types such as the Hunter, which were very long in the tooth by the time they came to be retired. I’m not sure what you mean by the Alpha Jet being evaluated against the Hawk - it's far more likely that they would have liked more Hawks, a type they already operated at DRA/Qinetiq, but that the cheaper option of used Alpha Jets won out.  Attrition of the original RAF purchase of 175 Hawks has meant that the available fleet of the type has been spread more thinly across a range of roles which, in addition to fast jet and weapons training and some test work, now includes such duties such as target-towing and fleet facilities for the Royal Navy. PS: Mark, thanks for that confirmation on the callsign.

Same information I heard. Also, in terms of the Hawk winning - based on what the pilots have said themselves, that's not clear at all, they both have their own advantages and disadvantages.

Shame the IAC couldnt pick the ex Luftwaffe Alpha's to replace the Fougas. I remember lots of speculation about it - most of it probably misinformed though.

Although I do remember hearing it's the aircraft the pilots selected in the 80's/early 90's as a Fouga replacement.

[pilatus]

Quote (Short finals @ 11 Dec. 2006,13:31)

Quote (pilatus @ 11 Dec. 2006,02:31) the alphas were bought by the RAF to evaluate them against the British hawk in which the hawk emerged as the winner of that evaluation. The Alpha Jets were former Luftwaffe aircraft which became available when the whole German fleet of type was withdrawn from service.  They have been used primarily to replace types such as the Hunter, which were very long in the tooth by the time they came to be retired. I’m not sure what you mean by the Alpha Jet being evaluated against the Hawk - it's far more likely that they would have liked more Hawks, a type they already operated at DRA/Qinetiq, but that the cheaper option of used Alpha Jets won out.  Attrition of the original RAF purchase of 175 Hawks has meant that the available fleet of the type has been spread more thinly across a range of roles which, in addition to fast jet and weapons training and some test work, now includes such duties such as target-towing and fleet facilities for the Royal Navy. PS: Mark, thanks for that confirmation on the callsign.

no RAF hawks perform target towing or any other service for the royal navy however RN hawks do!the RN has a squadron of hawks which they use for target towing, aggressors etc and they come under the command of Fleet Requirements Air Direction Unit (FRADU)!yes the alphas were bought for evaluation against the hawk,but not to see if the alpha was suited for the RAF, it was bought mainly to learn more about the aircrafts operational characteristics, in the same manner as western nations aqquiring soviet built aircraft to see what they are capable of!

[pym]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-168277.html

"In the late '90s ETPS needed some more airframes to supplement its fleet, Fast Jet Test Squadron at Boscombe Down needed some more aircraft for continuation traning and Llanbedr needed some aircraft for chase. DERA evaluated several options and chose to buy some ex-GAF Alpha Jets to fill these requirements."

[Irish251]

Quote (pilatus @ 12 Dec. 2006,02:29)

quote] no RAF hawks perform target towing or any other service for the royal navy however RN hawks do!the RN has a squadron of hawks which they use for target towing, aggressors etc and they come under the command of Fleet Requirements Air Direction Unit (FRADU)!

I was aware of that.  The RAF Hawks of No. 100 Squadron act as target facilities aircraft as well, though presumably this is primarily for the RAF itself.  My main point was that, as has happened in the past, a type purchased for one or two basic roles has ended up being spread over several.

[Fouga]

Here is one of them, not my pic.

[Guinness]

Nice shot there Fouga


Guinness