Author Topic: Alternate force structure  (Read 546 times)

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Offline batafada

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Alternate force structure
« on: August 02, 2003, 01:30:41 pm »
and small talk it shall remain ,matey , very small talk indeed !! ':<img:'>

Offline Imshi-Yallah

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Alternate force structure
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2003, 09:51:44 am »
Would the boards users see it as feasible for the IAC to be organised and equipped as part of the three army brigades.
I don't mean this in the same sense as the DOF suggestion that the corps be split into an army aviation coy and a CG component.
Rather I see it as making good military and financial sense to meet the DF's greatest current weaknesses in one fell swoop, by expanding the corps inventory over what is now being considered in order to meet the DF's overall logs, mobility, RISTA and firepower requirements.
It makes more sense in my current thinking to unify some of the expenditure addressing these issues to equip both the army brigades, and the aircorps Wings simultaneously.
What I suggest is a force structure based on 10 LUHs (A109e/M/LUH, EC-145 etc around E2m ea) or maybe even 5-6 small M/Ls(battlefield utility helicopter, H-60, IAR 330, AB139 around E5m ea) and 2 large modern M/Ls (Ec-725, H-92 around E12-13m ea) per bde.
A naval squadron consisting 0f 4-6M/ls equipped for dual MPA/SAR and funded as such. (Approx 12-14m ea -EU funding)
With fixed wing element of 2-4 VFW-60W/ Cessna 342 liaison/utility aircraft (around E1m ea), 3 Cn-235MPA (an additional one costing approx 12m -EU funding), based in Baldonnel, a transport squadron equipped with 2 medium tactical transports (eg C-295 approx E16m, or secondhand C-130s approx E10m) a Saab 340 for air ambulance/VIP transport/ twin training  (approx E8m), a GIV or equivalent for VIP transport.
Lastly a training cell equipped with 8x PC-9 and simulators, and basic helicopter school provided by civilian contractor.

E44m per bde + Baldonnel at an extra 80m (depending on EU funding levels) in airframe terms
The additional costs of operating these extra ariframes must also be justified of course, but the Helicopter Squadrons assigned per bde will have the use of army personnel for security and admin duties freeing up technical and aircrew (NCO pilots should be intoduced for BUH/LUHs and Light A/C though), the BUH/LUHs in conjunction with Phoenix type UAVs will increase the RISTA capabilities of the brigade to an acceptable operational standard reduce the number of logistics and recce vehicles and personnel required to keep the brigade functioning in the field, armed LUH/BUHs will increase the firepower volume and flexibility of the bde leading to savings in lives and ammunition expenditure.
Troop mobility can be enhanced by using pairs of LUHs to lift a section at a time, giving the capability to move a battalion in around 40 lifts each, ( a single BUH could do the same job).
The two M/L helicopters would allow the movement of a whole battalion in  (personnel) in 17 lifts (34 for one) and provide a heavy logistics capability as well as carrying vehicles and specialist equipment.
Therefore an estimated E50m, per brigade would allow the brigade to:
1. Transport its own personnel, rations, ammunition, stores without the need to creat additional logs units or be reliant on a much larger number of trucks.
2.To gather more and more accurate intelligence for all forms of mission, retrieve personnel in distress, direct long range fires accurately and have a very mobile firepower reserve.
3. To provide general purpose support to the civil power in the forms of air ambulance, fire fighting, surveillance and SAR.
 This investment would be partially paid for by savings made:
1. Greatly reducing the need for logistical vehicles, and for troop transport, armed recce vehicles.
2. Removing the need for the IAC to provide its own security force and increasing the interchangeablility of army and air corps career courses.

The core force of fixed wing aircraft would be based between a new major army base in Baldonnel (funded by the selling of city centre barracks) and smaller stations manned in conjunction with the Coastguard at three key regional airports, with limited addtional facilities provided by the brigade aviation centres.
The SAR aircraft would operate from Baldonnell, Hawbowline, and Sligo.
‘The hottest place in hell is for those who are neutral’
Dante Alighieri

Offline alpha foxtrot 07

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Alternate force structure
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2003, 12:55:11 am »
you should be working in the dail. great idea
but as the saying goes 'pie in the sky'
you're not lost until you're lost at mach 3

Offline irishsamourai

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« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2003, 06:35:23 pm »
: ':<img:'>
very good suggestions ,not too expensive but ....your government is agreed with this plan or it want to spend money for IDF i don't think so for the moment

Offline Imshi-Yallah

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« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2003, 09:00:18 pm »
Please note the heading "pie in the sky".
Just making small talk mate
‘The hottest place in hell is for those who are neutral’
Dante Alighieri

Offline Lurk

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« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2003, 07:53:54 pm »
Great thought put into the post, fair play to you.
One flaw is that of substituting aircraft for actual road transport. Weather alone would cause any operation to be lost if aircraft were grounded as a result of poor conditions.

Due to the above, any cost saving as a result of needing less road / offroad resources is not really there.

Offline Imshi-Yallah

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« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2003, 03:02:46 pm »
Yeah to be honest that hit me straight away but I'd already posted t so I thought I'd leave it.
Logs is our biggest shortfall and if the army realistically wants  a warfighting or even peace enforcing capability we'd need both.
The only cost effective solution I could think of would be to reduce the army to 2 brigades and a taskforce and add healthboard and DOE/DOJ contributions to the DOD budget to allow for multitasking of fleets (i.e. if all piots are trained on say A109s then it wouldn't be so hard to operate specialised airframes but have permanently militarised versions attached to your task force and a pool of flight trained pilots)
‘The hottest place in hell is for those who are neutral’
Dante Alighieri

Offline Claudel Hopson

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Alternate force structure
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2003, 03:59:21 pm »
What planet are ye all living on? Do ye not read the newspapers or listen to the radio or read the newspapers or read this board?

There isn't a snowballs chance in hell that any Government is going to re-organise the Air Corps into any sembelence of a proper force of any shape form or size for the forseeable future because there ain't no money for extra cars jeeps trucks tanks guns bombs bullets planes helicopters or THE PERSONNEL to do all this stuff you're all yakking about.

Take your heads out of the clouds lads and look at reality.