Baldonnel Procedures

[IRL227]

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Local traffic procedures at Baldonnel consist of 800', 1300' 1800'glide and 2800'pfl circuits.

Just to clarify, circuits at Baldonnel are usually at 800', 1300', 1800' and 2800'?

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The Military training areas are all west of baldonnel, and it makes sense for them to approach 11, to circle to land on the duty runway.

I never quite understood the circle-to-land procedure, is it just an orbit they do and come back in to land? and do they make the turn at a certain altitude or is that at the discretion of the pilot? Also, how often would a Surveillance Radar Approach be used at BAL?

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Instrument Approach Plates and Departure Procedures to/from Baldonnel are NOT published in the AIP.

Would it be possible for you to give the details of the ILS for rwy 11? i.e. the freq. and localiser identifier?

Regards,

Jim

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi there
A circle-to-land procedure is one where a pilot approaches a runway, so as to place himself down wind for another runway.That is, he descends as if to land at 11 but breaks off the approach to turn left or right to land on the next runway.It is most commonly used as part of an NDB non-precision approach.The danger with a circle-to-land approach is that one ends up in a downwind at about 600' above the airfield, which is below standard circuit height and doesn't give you much clearance above obstacles.
If there is a published Jeppesen plate for Baldonnel's approachs out there, then it is the public domain and easily available.
Glide/PFL circuits are not standard circuits so they do not apply to normal powered approachs.They do not have the same validity as a "real" circuit since they are in effect, a training device.
regards
GttC

[nibog]

Where to start..

Sure Weston is busy, last I heard they'd about 3 times the movements that Bal had, and more than Dublin too. But lots of traffic doesn't make for a complex environment. In Weston all the air & ground traffic is on one frequency, it's all VFR, and it all complies with standard procedures, most of the time.

Bal isn't busier, but it is more complicated, with 3 frequencies, mixed IFR/VFR, and non-standard procedures being the standard.

The IF Approach procedure to RWY23 passes directly over Dub at 10nm finals at 3000'. Believe me when I tell you, it causes confusion & panic, to such an extent that dublin simply don't allow it to commence.

Can't imagine why a 3000' TSA would be activated over dublin for a 500' AL03?? Unless it was a security operation similar to May Fly. The lads in the tower aren't a bunch of monkeys, there to make your life miserable, so there was probably a genuine reason to use 3000'.

Unless an aircraft is under radar vectors, it's up to the pilot to navigate around airspace boundaries. There is radar information available in Bal so it's very easy to tell if someone cuts a corner, and if one of our lads does it, he's just as wrong as anyone else.

Circling to land. The IAPs have at the bottom of the plate the OCA (obstacle clearance altitude) and on some, the COCA (Circling OCA). The COCA will differ depending on the Aircraft category A,B,C,or D, and there are restrictions on it's use. The pilot must not descend below that altitude unless he has become VMC. A 600'agl downwind is about 920'qnh and is perfectly fine. There's no extra danger associated with the procedure, because if the pilot is not visual by MAPt at COCA, he carries out a missed approach procedure. Easy as..

Just one last point. Glide & PFL circuits have a greater priority than 'real' circuits, for the same reason you say they don't. And by the way, ALL circuits are training devices. Glide + PFL are emergency training for 'in the event of a power failure after t/o and above 1000', or recovery from a power failrue at high altitude in a training area.

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi Nibog et al
Good answer....they did raise the airspace to cover Alouette routine air ambulance to Vincents and carrying crew to Dublin airport.I did make that comment in the past tense.Like I said, it was policy at the time...Weston is smaller, bounded on all sides by noise-sensitive areas, Dublin's zone and is used by jets, turbos and helis on top of all the training and resident GA traffic.They have a non-standard entry/departure procedure of their own and all this is handled without radar.The local management do not tolerate resident pilots or visitors being sloppy with local procedure and everyone who uses the place is well warned to avoid busting Baldonnel's airspace or Dublin's airspace.You should give them credit for that....I defy you to tell Dublin's ATCOs that they are prone to confusion and panic.You could sell tickets to that show! Based on my personal experience, they are very good at what they do and they try their best to accomodate GA.....I'm perfectly aware of what Glide and PFL circuits are for.My point is that the actual traffic circuits are the "real" ones and the other exist for training.Naturally, the normal circuit is usable for training but the others exist for the failure case.Unfortunately, real life has a habit of giving you engine failures outside of convenient circuits (old sweats will remember 227 in Clane)...will you decode your paragraph of acronyms for the non-IR rated readers? I know what they mean, but others might not.
regards
GttC

[nibog]

Ok - Non-Precision Instrument Approach Procedure 101:

Let's say we're flying an aircraft and are esablished on the inbound radial VOR/DME App Rwy 11 at bal. The wind favours 29 so we're cleared to the MAPt (missed approach point) to position Right Downwind 29. And we're in a CAT C aircraft. The OCA is 720'* and our COCA is 920'*. (NOT REAL OCAs - Dont have plates handy)

Aircraft is configured for landing and commences descent from 2000' at Final Approach Fix. Approx 300' per mile at 150kts groundspeed requires about 750fpm. We'll reach our COCA of 920' about 0.8miles before the MAPt, and we will NOT descend below that altitude without being satisfied that we can continue VFR(Visual Flight Rules). If there is any doubt as to whether we can maintain VMC(Visual Meteorological Conditions), we execute the published Missed approach procedure.

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi Nibog,
Enough with the acronyms,already! I'm perfectly aware of what all the above spiel is about, having just renewed my own IR . Why don't you elucidate for the non-pilots,please?
regards
GttC