What next aircraft?

[Taj]

He possibly meant the KTX-2, now known as the T-50.

[FiannaFail]

Just wondering as this tread is now over a year old, have the members' views changed on this subject? It looks like we have our heli needs covered and the PC-9Ms have updated our  advanced training needs.  If Santa was to arrive over the next 12 or so months what would be on your letter?

FiannaFail
 

[corsair]

All talk of jets is just fantasy. It just isn't going to happen. We have neither the funding, infrastructure or political interest to go and get interceptors. In fact we don't need them anyway. There is no military threat to Ireland that would require fighters and the hijack threat is minimal and easily dealt with by our neighbour who would in fact be the real target. But even then, look at the RAF, their last air to air kill was in 1948. Although the Royal Navy saw a bit of action in 1982.

In truth this may be the end of the Air Corps as we know it. I do think much of the Air Corps role will be civilianised because it's cheaper and more efficient. Why don't we have a proper air ambulance service in this country. Every other European country has one, indeed probably every other western country. All we have is a few military helicopters that can be adapted for medical evacuation.

We also need a properly dedicated fishery protection, coastguard, customs aircraft to cover the coasts. Don't say we don't need it because it's obvious that the west coast is the most open in Europe. One CASA is hardly a deterrent.

The GASU can easily be handed over to the Garda themselves and flow by civilian pilots. The police have made no secret of their preference for that option.

The government jets should be replaced by someone like Netjets. One phone call and there's a jet waiting for you.

So therefore the most likely next aircraft for the Air Corps are more helicopters for the army.

The PC-9s won't be replaced. They're not needed now anyway. They're overkill as trainers for helicopter pilots and useless in any other military capacity. They are little more than morale boosters for the pilots.

[FiannaFail]

  ouch!
FiannaFail

[Paul McA]

"There is no military threat to Ireland that would require fighters and the hijack threat is minimal and easily dealt with by our neighbour who would in fact be the real target. But even then, look at the RAF, their last air to air kill was in 1948. Although the Royal Navy saw a bit of action in 1982."


You seem to forget the RAF pilots that were involved in the Falklands War and both Gulf Wars and Bosnia/Serbia
You also seem to ignore the live firing and live ordance exercises that take place regularly in Europe and US/Can.

Ireland could very well be a target for terrorists-flights to/from USA for example, or do you choose to ignore those as well

To be perfectly honest with you, I`m surprised an attempt to attack US bound flights from Dublin has not been tried-no disrespect to Dublin Airports security but most UK airports would be more difficult to get access to.

[FiannaFail]

Paul,
Great, there is at east one other member that thinks like me! I couldn't have put it better!
FiannaFail

[FiannaFail]

So Corsair the question remains: why do we have the Defence Forces?  Surely there is no threat from anyone so surely it should be disbanded and save the taxpayers billons?
 :ireland:FiannaFail

[FiannaFail]

Still nobody wants to debate whether we should have the Defence Forces or should they be disbanded. Especially are there will never be a threat to out contry, ever according to some here? And if there was surely the British taxpayers would only be delighted to fund our defence...wouldn't they?
FiannaFail

[corsair]

"No RAF pilots have engaged in air to air combat since 1948"

I didn't say that I said

look at the RAF, their last air to air kill was in 1948.

. Baldonnel boy answered it perfectly anyway. It's ironic really even the Dutch Royal Air Force got an air to air kill.  But that's all off topic.

As is Fianna Fail's question. But to answer it: We do need the defence forces. Despite what you might think I am a supporter of the Air Corps. What we don't need are expensive toys bought to stop Air Corps pilots leaving to join Ryanair. We also don't need a lot of taxpayers my money and yours being spent on aid to the civil power jobs that could easily be done cheaper by civilians.

The Air Corps is really an Army Air Corps. They should have kept the green uniforms.

[Baldonnel-boy]

Still nobody wants to debate whether we should have the Defence Forces or should they be disbanded. Especially are there will never be a threat to out contry, ever according to some here? And if there was surely the British taxpayers would only be delighted to fund our defence...wouldn't they?
FiannaFail

Whats the point of debating whether we should or shouldn't have a defence force in Ireland ?    :duh:This is a Air Corps related thread not a Defence Force one..if you want to debate the Defence Forces as a whole go and join IMO or the like and debate it all you want with them  ... and as for the Air Corps im with corsair on that one too....they are not a Air Force in any strech of the imagination but they are trying to be one..... 

[FiannaFail]

Isn't the IAC part of the Defence Forces? Whats its purpose. If we dont need an air defence force why not and who will do it?  There are a lot of potential targets in this country that international terrorists would love to get their dirty hands on. So what were the purposes of the Vampires and Fougas in the past then?

Why is it that we do not need an air defence force while most other countries do?
FiannaFail

[Gnat]

..if you want to debate the Defence Forces as a whole go and join IMO or the like and debate it all you want with them 

Debate with IMO, dont think so. They dont like dissent. Had a look at the thread on the AW139, paranoid . Disagree and try to debate, they come at one from all directions.
Gnat
(I sting)

[Baldonnel-boy]

For a start we are a small country with a limited Defence budget which i believe is about a quarter of that other neutral country in Europe...ie Switzerland...Can you imagine a Taoiseach standing up in the Dail and announcing that the defence budget was going to be not doubled but quadrupled... he would need the army just to get home alive... ...and we also have the advantage of being on the very westerly edge of Europe so if someone did want to get here they would have to in most cases go through some fairly well defended airspace.....another point is even if we did have a proper air defence network how would it stop a determined attack by terrorists .... our airspace is so small that if they did hijack a aeroplane in Dublin to attack somewhere in Ireland it would be there in minutes ...so no way could you launch a fighter to intercept.... then identify ...and then get permission to shoot it down..only other option would be a standing patrol that would cost so much that not even the British or the US can afford to do it......so why would we waste millions if not billions on something that would be a complete waste of money??? As for is there any real need for the Air Corps ..... yes they are a very important part of the Army's training...as in using helicopters in training before going on UN deployments...etc......

[FiannaFail]

There are smaller countries than us and poorer too that spend more on their air defence services than we do.  They view it as a national priority.  Just look at the money that would be available for the IAC if it was not wasted on Harney's state funding for co-located privated hospitals on state land?  Why should hospital consultants just be given a pay rise of a minimum €245,000 before extras while hospital consultants in UK and Europe get between €65,000-€70,000 and are considered very well paid?
FiannaFail

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi there
Forget fighters.It will never, ever happen.A better light strike aircraft than a PC-9? Possibly....Personally, I think the AMX would be a good choice.
In the meantime, nothing less than a C-130 for strategic airlift.Don't waste your breath on anything smaller as the cost/benefit are simply not worth it. A Casa 295 is far too small for STRATEGIC airlift and is scarcely a real tactical transporter.
Failing that, stick with hired-in civil assets such as the An-124 or even A300 or IL-76 or join that NATO or EU Pool.Anyone who ahs spent five minutes in Shannon Airport will have seen enough airlift capability to last the Don a lifetime.
For the Cessna replacement, buy Cessna 182s.They're what they should have got the first time.If you want to go all-turbine, get a few clean(uncluttered with garda gear) Defenders.Rock-simple aircraft, that are easy to maintain and very good at what they do. If you want to drop paras, get a PC-6 or a Caravan.Buy the Rangers their own, for their own para-dropping duties, to be operated at their choosing......Shift the GASU entirely to the Gardai, a move which is long, long overdue and is simply the result of smart politicking and stubborness from the Don hierarchy.Put the money into buying more helicopters to serve the Army..........sell the King Air, as it is so old and high-houred as to be essentially worth only the value of it's engines. Buy two C90s for multi-engine training, air ambulance and MATS back-up and a King Air 350 for short-range MATS.Sell the GIV and put the money towards a GV or similar.
Move to bases around the country and stop depending entirely on a small, cramped airfield with substandard navaids, surrounded on all sides by housing or industrial buildings and move to the plenty of long runways available.
regards
GttC