What should the Major Air Corps Roles Be?

[Fouga]

There was a Turkish Atlas Jet MD-83 Airliner hijacked and forced to land at Antalya just a day or two ago, good ending but what if that was an Aer Lingus in or heading to Irish or UK or European Airspace or any other Aircraft and the Terrorists intentions were not to land but crash into a building or heavily populated area perhaps.

[Taj]

Quote (SARMAN @ 19 Aug. 2007,07:38)

in what circumstance would a back up to the current service be needed?  Major flood in D4 for example!!!

If Willie had his way they are more likely to be employed on the Shannon to Heathrow route!

All joking aside though if you look at the Meath bus crash a couple of years ago, the response from the A/C was excellent. But when you delve deeper into the circumstances of that crash and most importantly the time it occured, it did happen during duty hours and that is the route of your problem with top cover.

Top cover is vital, for you and your colleagues own safety and for getting to the vesssel/persons in distress quicker by being directed directly to the scene. Going on a long range SAR mission out into the Atlantic in the threos of a winter storm(or summer given the weather recently) is a damn risky business even with a high endurance radar equipped fixed wing asset overhead. And to do so without that top cover raises the risk level enormously.

What are your options? Really all you and your colleagues want is the added assurance that you get home to your wives and family at the end of your duty shift. If you refuse to fly long range rescues without it, you become the villian and the guy in life raft has an even worse day.You cant win and my sympathies are with you.One wonders if it will take a tragedy to change the current situation.

Should top cover be privatised? That would be one option. 24hr availability, wider areas searched more quickly and the ability to air drop survival equipment and direct the primary rescue assets such as you guys on to the scene,thats if you havent found it first(he says back tracking quickly).

However, you are right. We do have two very capable aircraft available already and they should be available to provide this service. Now we are back in duty hours territory.Things are improving it seems..but unfortunately not on a 24 hr basis just yet.

No offence taken by the way.Sometimes bitter is good..especially with a double gin!

[Vulcan]

So the trend in this thread is that if any country or terrorist organisation has its designs on Ireland they only have to come on a weekend or after 6 pm during the week and the door is, effectively open for them!?!

[Pink Panther]

This isn't really a good state of affairs now, is it.

[Pink Panther]

Quote (Vulcan @ 20 Aug. 2007,12:37)

So the trend in this thread is that if any country or terrorist organisation has its designs on Ireland they only have to come on a weekend or after 6 pm during the week and the door is, effectively open for them!?!

It opens earlier than that on Wednesdays and Fridays. '>

[Vulcan]

Quote (P.Doff @ 20 Aug. 2007,05:06)

Just to add a few bits to the pot here. The CASA's have a raft launcher on board, with rafts,most of the time. The only time this is removed is if they are dropping parachutists or taking on cargo (Troops,air ambulance..etc) and even then it only takes 20-30 mins to change the cabin /ramp area around!! Again it comes down to manpower in my opinion. For a SAR mission  your going to need two pilots and two SARO's. The aircraft has more than likely come back off a patrol that evening (assuming its a night rescue) and must be DI'd and washed for the next day. This is done almost immediatly and its put to bed, so there shouldnt be any problem there. The call comes in for Top Cover, the crew that were on patrol are resting off so cant fly again! You now have to go and find another crew at very short notice. By the time this happens, if at all, its too late!! So, its a lot more than having the aircraft to do the job, its having the people to crew them. I say it over and over again. The aircraft fleet may be growing but the amount of qualified personell isnt for the moment.

If the crew that would have been out during the day can not be called on to fly again, understandably, then why can't the second crew, that you would have to go looking for, be there on stand by, then you wouldn't have to go looking for them.  The other point raised here is that there are'nt enough qualified crew to man the aircraft.  Then I think a major recrutement drive should be launched.  I have seen Ads and videos for the army and navy, but I can't recall seeing any for the air corps.  Maybe it should be seperated from the army, as I beleive they are really the air bourne wing of the army, correct me if I'm wrong, and an Irish Air Force be founded.

[Pink Panther]

The other option would be to put SAR top cover out to tender.If this service cannot be provided to the IRCG they might have to look at other options I would think.

[Vulcan]

Quote (P.Doff @ 20 Aug. 2007,10:03)

It hacks me off the way these discussions go sometimes. People should step up to the plate and volunteer if they are concerned and exer's should know better. I know its a discussion on how things should be run but ,most of us have no control over it and do our best so you can see why it can be annoying!!

I can quite see how frustrating it must be for yourself and and the rest of the air corps, and I for one am not knocking them for one moment.  My point is that this being a discussion forum these ideas and thoughts are just that, ideas and thoughts.  If some of the points that have arisen here were taken on board by the powers that be, then possibly it would make all your lives easier.  As for stepping up to the plate and volunteering, I have as a volunteer crew member with the RNLI both here and in the UK in the past.

[SousaTeuszii]

ICG helicopters provide 24/7 cover. Each base has only 8 pilots and 8 crew total and still provide over 700 flight hrs per base per year. Are you telling me that there are not 8 CASA pilots in the Don!
ST

[Vulcan]

Just heard on the scanner (time 22.00, 21/08/07 ) Irish air corps Casa Charlie 235 doing top cover for Rescue 115 off the west Kerry coast I think it is.

[SARMAN]

Vulcan
Ya it was C253, on top cover off the west coast, Medevac from French fishing vessel.  The CASA was on the ground in Galway at the time of the call, pilot training I am told..
Maybee we could get a CASA based there!!

I think everyone knows that no one on this board will be making the call on what to do with Air-Corp's aircraft and how they are deployed, I thought it was a forum for discussing what would be the best options, I tend to take what is said on a forum with a pinch of salt, and a or organisation is better than your organisation is always a bad sign..  Sh*** throwing and people will take some things personnal then it get's messy..

It is obvious that if the Air-corps where to provide a 24/7 SAR unit for top cover it would have to be 1. Manned properly (both crews and tech's), 2. Have an Aircraft available, 3.  Have top cover trained crews available.
I know that the CASA's currently do a large amount of flying and I can see how one pilot or SARO getting of a patrol should never be used for a top cover shout, very dangerous, a Flight Time Limitation would have to be put into place and enforced.  I feel it would be a step in the right dirrection for the Air-corps, both for flight time in an operational theatre and in flight experience, night time in sh*** weather 200nm of the west coast can be as challanging as it can be, think of the invaluable experience this would give to all the crews involved..
  

[Vulcan]

SARMAN

I suppose if a Casa was to be deployed to this side of the country, Galway would be as good as anywhere, especially as there is an army barracks within 5-10 mins from Carnmore where the crews could be based.  I think I picked them up over NW Limerick as thats what I thought they said and the comms were pretty poor, did'nt know they were in Galway.

[John K]

Not very practical, Vulcan. (curious name, you haven't got pointy ears have you?-only joking!!) How many crew would be needed to keep the aircraft at Galway? Spares? At best it could fly in for the day but every day? Anyway, Galway Barracks is a dump! Though I did stay in a nice new block there about 25 years ago! Gussie Warner had a whinge at the state of my boots in the morning, never mind that the Allouette was serviceable and ready for flight.
Sousza, you're right, we shouldn't have risen to FFs thread! He got pi55ed up and started this thread and we're daft enough to post on it!
What're you up to these days FF?

[Vulcan]

Point taken JohnK but it would be more practical than Shannon I would of thought if there was a case for a Casa to be stationed on the west coast, as I think one should, as most of their ops are off the west coast.  Every time they fly such ops they have to fly right across the country before they even start, bit of a waste really.  

As for the pointy ears, that would be 'logical' I suppose, but it is the delta, jet type that it refers to.  Aircraft, that is, not ears!!!

[John K]

Yep! Looking forward to the day when I see it flying again! fantastic aircraft at an airshow!
How did you get an interest in the irish Air Corps?