RAF Gazelles

[clan]

We will have to agree to disagree, My back round says it is restoration. And it is not an unsupportable concept, why would it be. There is no reason why buying second hand restored aircraft cannot be used for combat duties. Remember we do not know what condition the craft are in and unless they are examined a proper judgement cannot be made. Just because something is second hand does not mean it does not work and is not worth the money.Nothing is unsupportable, and that is a silly statement unless you are the COS.
As for been ridiculous, WHY!!, do you know what plans the Gov have for Irish troops over the next few years and ERF.

[FMolloy]

Sticking weapons on a heli doesn't make it a fire-support platform. The Gazelle would be too vunerable to enemy fire to get in close.

[clan]

Point Taken FMolloy, but if they are good enough for the RN and Army air corp as attack helicopters and are only now been replaced by the Apache why would they not suit us.
Spec
Type - battlefield and utility helicopter  
 Max. speed - 260 km/h  
Max. range - 710 km
 Length - 11.97 m  
Heigth - 3.19 m  
 Service ceiling -4100 m  
Main rotor diameter - 10.50 m  
 Tail rotor diameter - 0.69 m
Powerplant - 1 Turbomeca Astazou XIVM turboshaft  
Crew - 2 In service - 1977  
Armament - AS.11 ASM, TOW AT missiles, 68, 70 and 81 mm unguided rockets, AA52 or MAG 7.62 machine gun  

They can also carry the latest Atam system for self defence
The Atam system, with a weight of under 200 kg, is comprised of two launching ramps with two missiles each, i.e. four ready-to-fire missiles. It is capable of intercepting helicopters as well as fighter aircraft and can be fired from altitudes comprised between 0 and 15,000 ft and at speeds of between 0 and 200 kts.


Very simple to use ("fire and forget" type of missile), easy to maintain in condition, Atam can be used throughout the flight envelope of the carrier helicopter.

The missions  

The system can be easily integrated on any type of helicopter, be they attack, liaison or transport helicopters. It provides these helicopters with a self-defence capability, and it also allows them to carry out escort missions for other helicopters, as part of air mobile forces, land convoys escort over long distances, and long-range fast projection of air defence resources.

It was only a thought, especially with the Apaches being delivered next year to the RN/RAF/RM

[yellowjacket]

Quote (Silver @ 30 Nov. 2003,08:49)

..... and somebody here mentioned (a while back) that new AS355's/Fennecs were on offer a year ago for €1 million each ! €8 million would have replaced the Alouette fleet !!!

Eceurils hardly seem to provide an adequate replacement for an AIII.

[Silver]

Interesting stuff clan.

Armed Gazelles would be a welcome addition as far as I am concerned -even if it was only for training with Army and NS, interception of light aircraft/helis (i.e. smuggling) and VIP protection ops.

[Imshi-Yallah]

I dont see what LUH roles the twin Fennec couldnt fulfill?

[Fouga]

That dauphin looks italian

[FMolloy]

The BA AAC stopped using the Gazelle in an armed role some time ago, currently they act as scouts for the TOW-carrying Lynxes. I'm not sure the RN ever used them for anything other than training.

The only practical application of armed helicopters in DF service would be in the support of overseas missions. As I've said, the Gazelle would be far too susceptible to enemy fire to be of any real use. If the AC wanted to adopt an armed helicopter it would have to look at a purpose-built model.

[n-e-foo]

Quote (Fouga @ 29 Nov. 2003,06:01)

That dauphin looks italian

I had a look at that photo a few days ago. It was an experimental dauphin variant from the mid 1980's. The flag is french and if I remember it had a French civilian registration, so....

Anyway - if the Air Corps could stick rocket launchers on 172's, could the same not be done with any 212 Heli's bought, if so desired? '>

[Imshi-Yallah]

It depends on the role, while arming helicopters and using them to offensively does require a more survivable airframe, there is a certain utility in arming observation aircraft for self defence and for anti-tank support in low intensity conflicts.

[clan]

They could indeed, in the end it all comes down to money and if the DOD will pay for it and the COS will actually look at securing, new or second hand 212's or Gazelles or anything for that matter. It has been shown and proven that it is not as expensive to buy these craft as some may think. Kitting them out is not out of the question either.
But will they do it I doubt it.
The Dauphin looks the business with the colour scheme. There was an Private Agusta A109 painted in camouflage colours based in Galway a few years back it looked the business

[FMolloy]

Self-defence maybe, but offensive operations would be suicide. There's too many HMG's & AA cannons out there.

[Silver]

Your right clan, if the will was there we could have a dozen armed/transport helis within a year.
Be it Gazelle's, 212's, Dauphins or whatever.

I reckon the best route would be armed 212's or Dauphins (or better still A109's !) as they can serve in both roles - i.e. attack and transport.  
The Gazelle would be very limited in the transport role.

[alpha foxtrot 07]

if the gocerment were really serious about getting helo's we would aready have them, as was said there are alot of second hand chopper's out there for the prospective buyer, the office beside me at work is leased by a on demand helo operation, they reciently bought a 6 year old blackhawk of the US army put new engines on it, redone the interior for corporate use and the total price for the whole deal will come to about 1.6 to 2 million. now if a privatly owned company can do this why the HELL can't our goverment. surely they can muster up 20 million.
sorry about the rant lads it gets to me sometimes!

[Imshi-Yallah]

Isnt that what I said?