Taoiseach calls for Jet upgrade

[Shamrock145]

An Taoiseach has suggested that Learjet is unsuitable because "you can't stand up in it and it has no toilet", and has criticised the Beechcraft for catching fire.

Apparently, according to the news on TodayFM, he is suggesting that a new "government jet" be purchased.

 

...145

[Joe McDermott]

The G4 is 17 years old & is said to have the highest number of hours for the type. That seems to suggest that we as a country need more than one medium-long haul aircraft. On long haul flights it can take a full load of pax but is very restricted on baggage load.

The LJ is only suitable for short-medium haul flights, eg DUB-BRU.

The KA is even less suitable than the LJ & is much slower. However, it carries out a lot of other roles for the Air Corps, eg Twin Engine Conversion. It's 28 years old !

All 3 have performed well for the IAC over the years & have been excellent value for money.

Replacing the G4 has been on the cards for some years. Not doing so appears to be more to do with public perception & the willingness of non-government parties to slag off any government that considers spending the required money. Both the Boeing BBJ & Airbus 319 have been considered & both would be better value (cheaper to buy & operate) than a new Gulfstream. But they are larger, media & oposition parties seem to view that as "the boys splashing out on a big new toy".

& that's my two cents worth !

Regards,

Joe

[Shamrock145]

The G4 is 17 years old & is said to have the highest number of hours for the type.

Hi Joe

Just curious, can you cite any sources for that? What hours/cycles does 251 currently have run up?

...145

[Irish251]

The G4 is 17 years old & is said to have the highest number of hours for the type. That seems to suggest that we as a country need more than one medium-long haul aircraft. On long haul flights it can take a full load of pax but is very restricted on baggage load.

The LJ is only suitable for short-medium haul flights, eg DUB-BRU.

The KA is even less suitable than the LJ & is much slower. However, it carries out a lot of other roles for the Air Corps, eg Twin Engine Conversion. It's 28 years old !

All 3 have performed well for the IAC over the years & have been excellent value for money.

Replacing the G4 has been on the cards for some years. Not doing so appears to be more to do with public perception & the willingness of non-government parties to slag off any government that considers spending the required money. Both the Boeing BBJ & Airbus 319 have been considered & both would be better value (cheaper to buy & operate) than a new Gulfstream. But they are larger, media & oposition parties seem to view that as "the boys splashing out on a big new toy".

& that's my two cents worth !

Regards,

Joe

Joe

Travel in these aircraft is not quite the hardship you portray!   Even if 251 has high hours relative to other Gulfstreams, it is hardly worn out yet - after all, look at the early Gulfstream 2s that are still flying. It may have higher cycles for its age, though, given the number of quite short trips (e.g. Baldonnel-BHD) it has been used for.  I'm not clear how an A319 or BBJ would be cheaper to operate.  These are substantially larger aircraft and yet most ministerial travel involves groups of less than ten people, I suspect, so they would almost never fly with an airliner-sized load.  The number of long-distance trips that can't be adequately serviced by the G4 is very small, I would think, and a lot of official travel is to relatively near European destinations such as BRU or LUX.  I would tend to agree that any move to purchase a substantially larger VIP transport aircraft would not go down well with the public; if this was regarded as a good idea, it should have been done during the economic "boom" years, not when a downturn is happening.

[Joe McDermott]

Hi 145,

I believe An Taoiseach in the Dail today stated 11,000+ hours (not very much compared to modern airliners) & that it was the highest hour G4 about. Have heard this scuttlebut more than once over the last few years, but that doesn't make it true !

Hi ShortFinals,

Fully recovered yet ?

Have to agree with you on that, not exactly a hardship ! I think that the purchase prices of the BBJ or ABJ after 9/11 were very attractive for 2 to 3 years over the G5 with the cancellation of so many airline orders. Mick O'Leary was in there very quickly & book prices started to move up again. There was much talk at the time of a BBJ/ABJ fitted with cargo door/floor ect, giving the Corps significent airlift capacity in support of Irish troops on UN duty.

Joe

[Vulcan]

An Taoiseach has suggested that Learjet is unsuitable because "you can't stand up in it and it has no toilet",

.......and it was struck by lightening while he was in it!

The LJ is only suitable for short-medium haul flights, eg DUB-BRU.

Why not use Aer Lingus for long haul flights?  Gordon Brown uses B.A.

[Irish251]

Hi ShortFinals,

Fully recovered yet ?

Joe

No recovery was necessary - getting sensible in my old age! 

[Joe McDermott]

I must suggest some of that "sensible" stuff to the birthday boy & co. !!

Joe

[Shamrock145]

An Taoiseach has suggested that Learjet is unsuitable because "you can't stand up in it and it has no toilet",

.......and it was struck by lightening while he was in it!

AFAIK, the actual (2003) and alleged (recent) lightning strikes were both involving the G IV, at least it was reported that the recent "near miss" was the G IV. The alleged lack of toilet facilities coupled with a lightning strike could have been embarrassing! 

Either way, it hasn't reduced the utilisation of the AC, much in the same way as Mr. Ahern's public statement that he does not use helicopters because he was once in one that crashed after he'd be in it has reduced his utilisation of those assets ... handy then that St. Patrick's is so close to St. Luke's. 

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[Broc]

I remember when the Learjet arrived the Air Corps invited the media to have a look thereby removing any 'mystery factor' that the govt were hiding their extravagance. unfortunately the red tops made the aircraft out to be an embarassment as it was too small to be taken seriously! whatever happens its a no-win situation but if the option of transporting our peacekeepers can be emphasised, perhaps minimum begrudgery can be achieved?

[Irish251]

You can read here the actual Dail exchange: http://tinyurl.com/62azue  Note the statement:

"...the Gulfstream IV jet is still in operation. That was acquired in 1991 and all of my colleagues know my views on it. The aircraft is 16 years old and has flown more than 11,000 hours. I am told there is not an aircraft in the world, or the Third World, that has flown that number of hours."

Clearly there is some misunderstanding about where a total flying time of 11,000 hours ranks in aviation terms, since this equates to less than two hours' flying for each day of the 16 or so years the G4 has been in service.

[Stanly]

It'll hardly be delivered in time for our Bartholomew to appreciate...................

[Joe McDermott]

"handy then that St. Patrick's is so close to St. Luke's.  "

Shamrock 145, the importance of the proximity of the attitude adjustment centres of "Fagan's" & "Kenedey's"  in relation to St. Luke's should not be overlooked & I suspect would be more welcome than St. Pat's !

Joe

[Shamrock145]

"handy then that St. Patrick's is so close to St. Luke's.  "

Shamrock 145, the importance of the proximity of the attitude adjustment centres of "Fagan's" & "Kenedey's"  in relation to St. Luke's should not be overlooked & I suspect would be more welcome than St. Pat's !

Joe

Yeup, but neither establishment has the capability of accepting an AW139, unlike the college.

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[Tony Kearns]

This discussion of the Lear and the King Air in relation to the lack of toilets, is surely all a load of SH-ONE-T.
Tony K