The Irish Air Corps, An Illustrated Guide.

[Silver]

I recieved my copy from maxdecals this week and I have to say I'm very impressed with it!

I'm not a scale-modeller so the specifics of colour schemes dont matter that much to me.
I agree with a previous poster that we can sometimes be too critical of Irish publications.   

Well done to the authors and all involved with this excellent AC book! 

[Gnat]

I recieved my copy from maxdecals this week and I have to say I'm very impressed with it!

I'm not a scale-modeller so the specifics of colour schemes dont matter that much to me.
I agree with a previous poster that we can sometimes be too critical of Irish publications.   

Well done to the authors and all involved with this excellent AC book! 

Hey Silver,
Soooooo its alright and do not ctiticize becasuse it is an Irish publication. I do not want to say one way or the other about the book as I have not yet got a copy, but looking at the Seafire in the Max Decals website a Seafire in Irish colours it aint. You think that is alright?
 Gnat.
(I sting)

[corsair]

I too bought the book. I probably have every book published on the Air Corps at this stage. It is flawed but all of my collection seem to have their own flaws. The errors on the drawings should have been spotted. The errors on the camouflage have been mentioned. Some are just silly errors, like the side profiles scheme not matching the top view because of being reversed. The Lysander being a good example.

However all in all I like the book and took great pleasure from browsing it while sitting out in the garden on a sunny day. If there was a second edition the errors could be fixed but this in an Irish publication so that's unlikely.

Incidentally, there's couple of points. I would like to address. Tony Kearns addresses the Seafire wing folding myth in 'Wings over Ireland'. I'm puzzled? There is a clear photo of Seafires in that book, showing the wings folded. Clearly it was possible. Or am I missing something?

Also this

A few years back, well known British modeller Tony O'Toole wrote a pair of articles on the IAC Seafire and two-seat Spitfire in Scale Aircraft Modelling. Such was the criticism levelled at him that he vowed never to build an IAC model again! Sometimes we shoot ourselves in the foot.

As one of his so called critics. I felt he seriously overreacted even and aimed a barbed comment at me when I suggested that the Seafire colour was not in fact Interior green as he suggested but closer to Light Slate Grey based on a piece of Seafire I had in my possession at the time, which had both colours side by side. He all but accused me of lying.  I wasn't amused.

[Paul]

While the book may have flaws I've not seen an actual copy yet i doubt if the flaws are the result of the authors as Paddy Cummins in particular is infamously known to be a nit picker of the higest order, not taking from him but he is purist. I 've watched him in action and he does go to some extremes to get the right photo.

being involved in books in an unrelated subject getting the defintite image is allbut impossible, as photography goes paddy is the God of photos .I remember him pending hours just to get the right picture of an Allouette.

Joe Maxwell is decal creator extrordinare  and prior to his entry into the market we  in modeling circles were confined to a set released by Scale Aircraft Models released to copliment an artictle Tony kearns wrote in 1981 for that publication and that was the bible up to that point..still have acopy and some of the decals
the IAC has been really neglected up to this point,

Tony O'Tooles renditions were top class but the green left him down but in saying that if a guy can almost take over a model publication based on two Irish types kudos for that.

My own examples suffer from similar faults but I'm happy with as they were the zenith of my modeling on IAC Spitfires and Sea fires, Kearns and Cummins were the officioados  on the subject for many years and I took their lead.

As soon as the book makes it to shelf it will be given place of honour as these guys have attempted to fill that void that no one else has dared to venture near,

kudos to the guys and can't wait to obtain my copy Paddy always had a theory about the mirror image cammo on the Lysanders and until he can be outrightly proved mistaken I'm goin with him.
McCarrons last book on the subject was a waste of time, his book on war time landings was researched using a lot of Cummins work.....thats the only credibility it had.

I;ll stick with the two boys on this one as it the most serious effort and putting it all down on paper.
Look forward to it... now just to track down a copy locally.

Ive know a lot of the older guys involved in the preservation scene and spent my teens involved in the SEAE DC7C  at waterford when it was a complete  airframe project, these guys we good, paddy was the supplier of photos, he only takes and submits the the best ,buy it for the photography if nothing else.

[FiSe]

Also this

A few years back, well known British modeller Tony O'Toole wrote a pair of articles on the IAC Seafire and two-seat Spitfire in Scale Aircraft Modelling. Such was the criticism levelled at him that he vowed never to build an IAC model again! Sometimes we shoot ourselves in the foot.

As one of his so called critics. I felt he seriously overreacted even and aimed a barbed comment at me when I suggested that the Seafire colour was not in fact Interior green as he suggested but closer to Light Slate Grey based on a piece of Seafire I had in my possession at the time, which had both colours side by side. He all but accused me of lying.  I wasn't amused.

It's the 'colour of the paint' which is one of the most discussed topics between scale modellers.
You might have the same colour used on the inside and on the outside of the airframe, or in other words, on exposed and sheltered areas. You'd be surprised how much this one exact shade would vary after a year or two of service and flying.
I don't want to go into any dispute as I do not know what shade or colour No. was in the original order for those aircraft or which colour was used.
I am all for the Interior Green theory, but as long as I do not know what colour shade was used, I will keep my mouth shut 

[corsair]

Unfortunately I no longer have the piece of airframe to hand. It was misplaced in a move. But the difference was quite distinct between the obvious interior green and the external colour. As I said, they were side by side on the metal. The irony was that I felt he had got the colour right on the model, at least based on the photos. It was just his theory that it was interior green that I felt was wrong. I matched the airframe colour with Hannants light slate grey, which despite it's name it quite green, and it was essentially a Naval colour. It seemed logical that Seafires be painted with a colour they had to hand. It doesn't mean I'm right but it could have been another colour. It's just that it matched the paint I had.

[Tony Kearns]

Silver, I have to agree with Gnat (dare I do otherwise, he stings!) The publication is aimed at amongst others....modellers.I am not a modeller but I do know that serious modellers demand accuracy. I don't do " a sure t'will be allright"

Corsair, Of course you are correct to question the Seafire wing folding capabilities. That author is notorious for his lack of research. I have ten pages listing the Air Corps requirements to Vickers Armstrong. It actually states that the wing folding mechanism was to be pinned. The aircraft were extensively modified to Spitfire Vc standard, indeed many pilots recorded their flights in their log books as Spitfires. The Air Corps had no requirement for wing folding as there was ample hangar space for the 11 Seafires. What that picture that you refer to shows, is when they were withdrawn from service and stored at Baldonnel, of course if our self styled "Irish Military and Aviation Historan" had bothered to check that myth would never have run.
Your reference to British modeller Tony O Toole prompts me to mention that at that time I too had penned a letter ( as my name had been mentioned). I have to say that the models certainly looked stunning to my non modellers eye.I was not aware of further correspondence , maybe you still have that correspondence.

Paul, Welcome to the board.
Paddy Cummins is an authorative meticulous researcher and as I said previously, it shows in the publication. I appreciate that errors will always occur. I have no problem with that. The question arises who was in charge? The profiles seem to contradict the plan views, the Hurricanes are an example and are all incorrect, as is Magister 34 which does not show an underwing serial of the side profile yet it appears on the underwing plan. The Fairey Battle wing serials direction contradicts the direction on the side view. A check of the other profiles will reveal much the same.I call that careless and lack of attention, perhaps a rushed job.
Taking the text and research of Paddy Cummins and coupled with the photographic content ( even though there are some incorrect captions) ignore the artwork, then you have a work worth having.

There is a great difficulty in covering the history and markings of the Air Corps for the period 1936 to 1948, for the difinitive tome you will have to be patient.
The attachment from the issuing UK log book for Seafire 146 confirms the wing folding questions .
You even have the part numbers of the armament for a bonus.....want more?
Tony K

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi all,
I defy anyone to come up with a definitive answer to Air Corps colour schemes, especially for the old aircraft. In my time, paint schemes and assorted markings were the domain of the Drawing Office, which was a little enclave that bore no relation to the actual day to day of hangar operations. It was a rare day when anyone from that office graced the hangars with their presence.The then AE Section (Mid 80s to mid 90s) gave official direction as to the proper placing and size of decals and numbers / letters, the Drawing Office would then draw up the item and the Paint Shop would then make a stencil and apply the work to the aircraft. Things operated to a slow and small scale until the arrival of the Dauphins and their whole new colour scheme, which required an increase in output from the Drawing Office and the Paint Shop.The Drawing Office was modernised and increased in size, as the volume of drawings required increased rapidly and they had to get the finger out. The Paint Shop didn't have the good fortune to get any bigger and always seemed to have a floating population of three (the Big Skin, Pat and a.n.other). This was before the days of vinyl decals and literally everything was painted. I took part in the IRANs of the Marchettis and that work put the Paint Shop under a great deal of pressure.It lead to a lot of head scratching about decals, sizes, colours etc and the basic lesson learned by all was that all of the aircraft were ever so slightly different, as far as paint / colour schemes went. So, if the Don couldn't keep eight Marchettis looking exactly alike.
regards
GttC