Poll

Should The IAC Have Jets ?

Yes - Definitely
10 (66.7%)
No
3 (20%)
Maybe
2 (13.3%)

Total Members Voted: 15

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Author Topic: How Many Of Us Think The IAC Should Have Jets ?  (Read 2792 times)

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Offline Lootenant Pigeon

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How Many Of Us Think The IAC Should Have Jets ?
« on: February 03, 2010, 05:25:28 am »
I just wondered how many of us think the IAC should have jets / interceptors. Im assuming that we will get a 100% vote in favour but lets just see. :airforce_cheesy:
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 05:27:07 am by Lootenant Pigeon »
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Offline Frank

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Re: How Many Of Us Think The IAC Should Have Jets ?
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2010, 04:36:46 pm »
Talk about going over old ground....
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Offline Tony Kearns

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Re: How Many Of Us Think The IAC Should Have Jets ?
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2010, 07:31:07 pm »
Yawn.mmmmmmmmm  :sleepy:
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Offline Lootenant Pigeon

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Re: How Many Of Us Think The IAC Should Have Jets ?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2010, 10:12:23 pm »
This might be obvious to you lot but Im new here so I dont know the full background of what everyone thinks. Its a legitimate question and one that needs answered. Also theres a reason for the question which will become apparent later, Ive been doing some research which should be of interest to all those interested in or involved in the IAC.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 10:14:00 pm by Lootenant Pigeon »
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Offline Frank

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Re: How Many Of Us Think The IAC Should Have Jets ?
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2010, 10:32:11 pm »
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Offline Lootenant Pigeon

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Re: How Many Of Us Think The IAC Should Have Jets ?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2010, 06:47:38 pm »
Thanks for the links. However, I was hardly going to trawl through the entire history of the site for the last 5 years or whatever  now was I ? I will look at these though. I disagree that just cos times arnt so good this cant be done at all and I can prove it. Which I will, shortly. Expect a long post. Plus some awkward questions about IAC procurement and the governments role.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 06:49:51 pm by Lootenant Pigeon »
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Offline corsair

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Re: How Many Of Us Think The IAC Should Have Jets ?
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2010, 12:48:34 pm »
They do have jets, well technically speaking turbine engined aircraft. The GIV and the Learjet are 'jets' as such. Naturally you mean jet fighters or attack aircraft and no they will never get those.

To summarise my thinking and a few others.
They're expensive to buy, operate and maintain.
You'd also need a dedicated military radar system to control them. That would be nearly as expensive.
You would need to improve the facilities at Baldonnel and maybe even lengthen the runways.
Pilot training would have to be changed radically as would maintenance training. Manpower in the Air Corps would need to be increased to cope.
You would have to accept the fact that they would crash regularly and pilots would be killed. That's the nature of fast jets. They are dangerous. So attrition replacements would be needed.
You'd need missiles and bombs, also very expensive.
But mainly, we don't need them.
WE don't need the PC9s eithere but thats another argument.
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Offline Silver

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Re: How Many Of Us Think The IAC Should Have Jets ?
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2010, 09:28:12 pm »
Interesting post corsair.
I'm curious....what aircraft would you prefer to see the AC using (instead of the PC9) and why?
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Offline elmo

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Re: How Many Of Us Think The IAC Should Have Jets ?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2010, 09:59:11 pm »
Yes, im also interested in what corsair might believe as a substitute for the 9's because I am of the opinion that we purchased the latest available aircraft suiting our budget and requirements when the 60 million euro contract was signed. Out of the three aircraft; Super Tucano, Raytheon Texan T-6 and the Pilatus PC-9M im satisfied that we went with the 9.
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Offline Silver

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Re: How Many Of Us Think The IAC Should Have Jets ?
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2010, 01:58:56 am »
Quote from: elmo on March 04, 2010, 09:59:11 pm
Yes, im also interested in what corsair might believe as a substitute for the 9's because I am of the opinion that we purchased the latest available aircraft suiting our budget and requirements when the 60 million euro contract was signed. Out of the three aircraft; Super Tucano, Raytheon Texan T-6 and the Pilatus PC-9M im satisfied that we went with the 9.

And its seems the Air Corps are not alone in choosing the PC-9M....

The PC-9M (incl variants of same) have recently been chosen/purchased by many other air forces including the USAF and IDF (Israeli Defence Force). There also seems to be a growing trend for the greater use of turboprops instaed of jets in combat zones like Afganistan and Iraq.
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Offline CK

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Re: How Many Of Us Think The IAC Should Have Jets ?
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2010, 09:58:29 pm »
In fairness the PC 9 suits us the best. I would rather see more maritime patrol aircraft then the latest jet attack aircraft. :airforce_cool:
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Offline Silver

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Re: How Many Of Us Think The IAC Should Have Jets ?
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2010, 12:32:32 am »
Quote from: CK on March 06, 2010, 09:58:29 pm
In fairness the PC 9 suits us the best. I would rather see more maritime patrol aircraft then the latest jet attack aircraft. :airforce_cool:

Agree 100%!
More Maritime / Transport aircraft is what the AC needs.

IMO, Customs should also have surveillance aircraft for costal patrols ...perhaps operated by the AC - as is the case with the GASU aircraft.
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Offline Vulcan

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Re: How Many Of Us Think The IAC Should Have Jets ?
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2010, 01:28:04 pm »
Quote from: Silver on March 06, 2010, 01:58:56 am
Quote from: elmo on March 04, 2010, 09:59:11 pm
Yes, im also interested in what corsair might believe as a substitute for the 9's because I am of the opinion that we purchased the latest available aircraft suiting our budget and requirements when the 60 million euro contract was signed. Out of the three aircraft; Super Tucano, Raytheon Texan T-6 and the Pilatus PC-9M im satisfied that we went with the 9.

And its seems the Air Corps are not alone in choosing the PC-9M....

The PC-9M (incl variants of same) have recently been chosen/purchased by many other air forces including the USAF and IDF (Israeli Defence Force). There also seems to be a growing trend for the greater use of turboprops instaed of jets in combat zones like Afganistan and Iraq.

I will probably be shot down in a hail of bullets for saying this, anyway, I'll say it anyway.  What the heck do the IAC need PC-9's for? All they are being used for is to train pilots to fly trainers, at least the USAF and the IAF are using them as the first step to putting pilots into combat aircraft.  The Air Corps are using PC-9's and pretending to have an air defence capability and that is definitely not the case as recent events have proved. They should sell them off (well most of them anyway) and invest more in maritime patrol aircraft. Again, I am not knocking the men and women of the Air Corps I am sure they are great bunch, just the powers that be that don't seem to have and idea about defence.
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Offline Silver

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Re: How Many Of Us Think The IAC Should Have Jets ?
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2010, 06:26:24 pm »
Quote from: Vulcan on March 07, 2010, 01:28:04 pm
Quote from: Silver on March 06, 2010, 01:58:56 am
Quote from: elmo on March 04, 2010, 09:59:11 pm
Yes, im also interested in what corsair might believe as a substitute for the 9's because I am of the opinion that we purchased the latest available aircraft suiting our budget and requirements when the 60 million euro contract was signed. Out of the three aircraft; Super Tucano, Raytheon Texan T-6 and the Pilatus PC-9M im satisfied that we went with the 9.

And its seems the Air Corps are not alone in choosing the PC-9M....

The PC-9M (incl variants of same) have recently been chosen/purchased by many other air forces including the USAF and IDF (Israeli Defence Force). There also seems to be a growing trend for the greater use of turboprops instaed of jets in combat zones like Afganistan and Iraq.

I will probably be shot down in a hail of bullets for saying this, anyway, I'll say it anyway.  What the heck do the IAC need PC-9's for? All they are being used for is to train pilots to fly trainers, at least the USAF and the IAF are using them as the first step to putting pilots into combat aircraft.  The Air Corps are using PC-9's and pretending to have an air defence capability and that is definitely not the case as recent events have proved. They should sell them off (well most of them anyway) and invest more in maritime patrol aircraft. Again, I am not knocking the men and women of the Air Corps I am sure they are great bunch, just the powers that be that don't seem to have and idea about defence.

What are you refering to above?

We all know that the AC dont have a full air defence capability...they lack the radar and jets(!) to have such a capability. They do however have a COIN and point-air-defence capability (as displayed when Bush visited, and during our EU Presidency meetings in Dublin). (I believe that US security personnel were in fact impressed by the PC-9's and Marchetti's doing point air defence over Shannon when Bush visited)

I understand where you are coming from, but, surely it is also better to have a pool of pilots trained up to (almost) jet flying standards so if the international situation worsened at least the time to train AC pilots to fly any purchased jets would be far shorter (by years?!) than having to start from scratch??
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Offline CK

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Re: How Many Of Us Think The IAC Should Have Jets ?
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2010, 08:51:41 pm »
We could though use more trainers like the PC 9. AS pre PC 9 era we had both Fouga and Marchetti aircraft combine to provide some sort of air cover. But nwo with just with PC 9s we are just combined to 7 aircraft from previous 14 aircraft.
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