Waterford SAR to go to 12 hrs in new contract

[heligaz]

The 139s would need to have filters fitted to stop engine corrosion from salt water and also a few mods including a dual winch instead of just one. The serviceability of the aircraft are not near the 98% of the S92's. A lot of money would need to be spent to upgrade a few of the 139s in service.

[davephelan]

i wasn't suggesting that the AW139 was what we should have had, i just thought that it made sense to have a single fleet . Most of the aircraft utilised for Medium Lift are also suitable for SAR. The truth is, i believe we bought too small an aircraft, Super puma/Merlin was the size of aircraft we should have selected . Do you all remember when the fishing boat was wrecked on the rocks outside Howth  harbour, about 1993 , i think, and there was no 24hr Dauphin available and opne of the seamen drowned . The story was, that it took 45 mins to get a Wessex from Valley . There was a discussion on the radio the next day and John DeCoucey said we had been offered Seaking HAR3s from the end of the RAFs production run, but had turned the offer down .
My main point was that a combined force of Medium lift and sar choppers, has to be cheaper to acquire and to operate . I know they are different jobs but it must have synergies .

[Silver]

I have thought that surely it would make more sense long-term to buy our own SAR helis rather than paying €500 million over ten years to just pay a company to do the job? (plus what money has been spent to date paying for this service).

If Denmark, Portugal, etc can provide their own SAR service, why cant we?

Also...
Is there any SAR training within the AC at present (I note that at least 2 x AW139's have winches fitted)?
Combat SAR perhaps??

Plus, I read that the new UK Coast Guard SAR contract will include the following provisions...
- the new SAR helis will be painted in black and red/or white and will have RAF, RN and MHCG logos on each aircraft,
- the pilots will be a pool of Coast Guard, Royal Navy and RAF pilots..

Should a percentage of ICG pilots be on transfer from the AC ?
(that at least might allow emergency cover in the event of any future strike by private CG pilots)...plus would give AC pilots a broader experience on heavy lift helis, SAR roles etc etc 

[heligaz]

Thats not a bad idea, its a pity we didn't buy a fleet of superpuma's. 

[Pink Panther]

I have thought that surely it would make more sense long-term to buy our own SAR helis rather than paying €500 million over ten years to just pay a company to do the job? (plus what money has been spent to date paying for this service).

SAR is been civilianised in Europe and further afield because it is better value that way. The "company" as you put it, CHC IRELAND with the vast majority of its employees being Irish people,provides a "service" and manages to keep four bases operational 24/7 365 with approx 100 personnel, and carried out over 550 taskings last year with countless lives saved both here in Ireland and further. The Aer Corps have approx 850 at one base with how many aircraft available 24/7 365.

If Denmark, Portugal, etc can provide their own SAR service, why cant we?

We can and do, it is carried out by the IRCG and Aer Corps (Top cover).

Is there any SAR training within the AC at present (I note that at least 2 x AW139's have winches fitted)?
Combat SAR perhaps??

As I said in a previous thread the AC are not AWSAR training, they are moving on to other things, they are not interested in SAR anymore. Yes some of the 139's have winches but that is the easy bit. Just because it has a winch doesn't make it a SAR heli.

Should a percentage of ICG pilots be on transfer from the AC ?
(that at least might allow emergency cover in the event of any future strike by private CG pilots)...plus would give AC pilots a broader experience on heavy lift helis, SAR roles etc etc 

Private CG pilots or crew for that matter won't be going on strike any time soon, as there is a no strike policy.

The facts are the IRCG are responsible for maritine SAR (not the AC) and have thier own heli's to task to whatever they see fit, we have a good service in place now, that is only going to get  better because of incidents like the one mentioned in an earlier post off Howth.

 

[corsair]

You confused me for a moment there pink panther because until I realised you were quoting another post. But otherwise you're right. The Air Corps will never operate SAR again. They were found wanting when they had a chance. One of the few good decisions made by the Irish government was to privatise SAR in this country. Quite simply the Air Corps would have to expand considerably to operate SAR. More pilots and aircrew would be needed. They also simply lacked the expertise in 24/7 operation, night flying and Instrument flying in helicopters. All of this would have to be learnt on the job. They have a problem with pilot retention so would always be on the back foot keeping crews fully trained. There was also a reluctance by Air Corps personnel to be based away from Baldonnel.

All of this would be more expensive than hiring a company with expertise in the field with access to a huge pool of ex RN and RAF pilots and crew and indeed some Air Corps. A large proportion of their pilots seem to be British judging the by the accents on the RT. The unpalatable fact is that for the Air Corps to get up to speed they would probably have to hire in ex British forces personnel to train them. Also most of the recent aircrew being hired are experienced paramedics. Where would the Air Corps get those from?

SO CHC provide the best option for all concerned. Comparisions to the British set up aren't valid. Things are quite different there.

[Pink Panther]

I am not very good at the cut and pasting :-) I was trying to answer some the question being put by Silver. Maybe Frank could tidy it up  Their are indeed ex RN, RAF, and AC including a very good sprinkling from the civie side flying, which makes for a good allround service, lots of ideas being put into practise. It just depends what base you go to in relation to accents 

[Silver]

Thanks for the answers Pink Panther. I dont disagree with your points, I know the CG do an excellent job...and long may it continue (...incl 24hr South East cover)!

Just to clarify ...when I mentioned Denmark and Portugal....I meant that their militaries provide SAR heli cover (Sweden too I believe).


So it would appear that the winch-equipped Air Corps AW139's are only being used for fast-roping training with the Ranger Wing, and not for any SAR training?

Though havent the AC being involved in inland (mountain?) SAR missions with the 139's?
(presumably these rescues didnt involve winching? ...i.e. just landing near the scenes to liase with mountain rescue teams and to take out injured civilians?)

[Pink Panther]

Good news

http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=189

 

[huge_dave]

Thats excellent news... Delighted :-)

[corkspotter]

Brilliant news! at last one of our politicians got some sense, or was it all our signitures on the petition!!! 

[Joe McDermott]

Excellent news   

[CK]

Thank god they changed their minds.

[Silver]

Yes...excellent news! I heard on local radio (Beat 102-103) that so many people had contacted local politicians that they reveresed their decision. A letter to a WX paper also rightly stated that to lose the 24hr SAR service would be an insult to the Dauphin crew who lost their lives in Tramore in 1999 (i.e. the crash happened a day after the 24hr SE SAR service commenced) 

People power at its best! 

[Lootenant Pigeon]

Another ridiculous government decision in relation to Irish Aviation, just to save what amounts to almost nothing at all in the greater scheme of things !  Thank God its been reversed. OK Pink Panther ( or anyone ) give us a brief summary of why the AC dont do SAR, if brevity is possible.