Agusta A109M

AF 07,

I do agree but want people want and what is logical are 2 different things.

A few years ago the RNLAF where looking for new "light "transport helicopters.
We already had the AH-64D Apaches which have the same manufactor, engines, technical support, etc. as the UH-60.
Everybody ( including the military)  thought the choise would be the UH-60 Blackhawk but the polliticians in The Hague decided the AS-532U2 Cougar was "better".

The choises are more political than military these days I'm affraid.

Guinness

P.S.  I do agree that a UH-60 will look great with the Orange-White-Green roundel  '>

[IAS]

I think the AH-64 is built by Boeing and the UH-60 by Sikorsky.

IAS

You're right Ias but the engines en electronics are similar as I've been told by one of our testpilots.

Guinness

[clan]

Ias, Nearly positive. He has not started back at work yet so he has not flown over in the past week or two. And I am not going out in the boat in this weather(He owns an Island in the middle of Lough Corrib). But next time he flys over I will have a good look. Speaking of flying over a Turbo Prop twin engined plane just flew over pretty high and it looked like it was painted green or a very dark colour. We are right under the Flight path to the states or one of them anyway.

Guinness,

UH 60s would look greater with a low vis IAC roundel! Not to give too much away, but I hear that the IAC have been or will be offered 3 UH 60s second hand in the interim to be delivered in less than 4 months. These would be conditional on a security purchase contract with Sikorsky being in place in January. The security purchase would negate the tender process and the reason can be the impending EU enlargement summit in May and the presidency of the EU in 2004. That's a lot better reason than other countries have used to bypass the tender competition process... here's hoping someone sees sense and drops the 'light' utility for a plain old utility helicopter. Most personnel would sacrifice medium lifts / light helis for a one type fleet with enough frames to allow o/seas deployment. Training will have to be souced from abroad but what's different?

Quote

Scorpy, while not meaning to insult, are you doing a FF here?

Dear lord, I hope not, but of course, when it all falls through and the govt decides to get EC120s to replace all types and denies all memory of a Medium Lift Project, I may have egg all over my face. Personnally I won't believe it until one of them is unserviceable on jacks in no 3 hangar.

Anyhow, all I said was that they would be offered. They aren't being offered by another military force directly, although I suspect that the frames are in storage in the US at the moment. I know that the same frame was offered as an interim machine when the S92 was on the cards and the same timespan was mentioned. Ultimately, they may be too expensive to operate over time so the govt will probably run a mile, although it would be a very far sighted decision to purchase them. Some hope eh?

Thanks for the vote of confidence Silver.

[Fouga]

So we may possibly have Blackhawks soon?

[Bailer]

OK we're talking UH-60's "blackhawks" have specific technology that only the US use in their aircraft. The UH-60 is cheaper than an S-92 (which is more suited to SAR a role we do not HAVE TO cater for anymore) while the uh-60 or CH-60 (seahawk) also has a SAR and CSAR capability. The CH-60 also has a folding tail pylon for storage in small hangars (as on board L.É. Eithne ) and generic docking system for naval ops. It seems the better option even though the running costs would be greater than the current AC running costs. but no matter what Heli the get running and maintenance costs will increase.

It amazes me that as we can get 40 year old AIII's refitted reuglarly, yet we can't get 18 year old DauphinII's refitted!! especially when the EC-155 is still popular!!

[Silver]

Perhaps that is what the GOC meant when he recently said the AC will operate "two aircraft types" (i.e. UH-60's and PC-9's) !?

(Long term - GASU and MATS 'contractorised' ?)

........Cessna's ?

[Silver]

I wonder (due to running costs) were the AC given the option - "Blackhawks" (or similar-sized helis) OR "Jets" ?

(Actually, did somebody here once say the AC were given the option of L-39's/L-139's OR PC-9's - and they opted (perhaps rightly so!) for the PC-9 ?)

[IAS]

Scorpy, while not meaning to insult, are you doing a FF here?

Silver, maybe (hopefully) the GOC meant "Fixed Wing" and "Rotary Wing" aircraft?

IAS

[Fouga]

The Blackhawk is a very strong chopper, oh imagine one on the Grass at salthill alongside a US Army one ! What a pic!

The ones we had at salthill have been from bases in Germany and have been Medi and Non medi.

The medi choppers have the callsign "Dustoff" due to their dramatic and dusty takeoffs.

When the come to Galway the find their way by following the roads and railroads.

They were so low they could see people in cars waving at them from the cars!

[Bailer]

The UH 60 is a real work horse along the lines of a AIII, not only that but it's cheap(ish) while its avionics may not be as new as a "newer" type heli, it will be far more advanced than a aiii or Dauphin.

Perhaps even a Sea Hawk variant or 2 for the Naval ops role??

[Guinness]

Fouga,  

not only is "dustoff" used but in time of medical service ( if a patiant on board) they use "Medevac" + the last 2 numbers of their tailnumber.

Guinness

[clan]

Scorpy if that is true then it is fantastic, but the MOD in the UK did offer the Army Scorpion and Spartan Armoured Vehicles 300 of them for the price of a Ford Mondeo and we did not take them. Nothing wrong with them, they were just free. Charity who needs it. I  hope I am wrong I really do.
Has anyone heard an A109, one flies very low over my house every few days to the guys house a few miles away and the thing is as loud as be dammed. Not a good sound at all, the Dauphin sounds much sweeter.