Spitfire Tr9 ex 158 at Duxford

[Tony Kearns]

The Maurice Bayliss owned Spitfire Tr9 MJ62. Ex IAC 158 is at Duxford having wing tanks fitted.
With thanks to Joe Kennedy and Brian Marshall.

[Claudel Hopson]

Hi Lads. Not long after I joined this I remembered having pics of scrapped Seafires/Spitfires. I have searched long and hard and finally found them. They had been published in some article in some aviation magazine back in the 70's. Considering Tony's pictures above, what a waste!

There were a few more but those I cant find.

[FiSe]

The Baldonnel Seafire scrap heap is famous even outside of Ireland. I've seen photographs of the Seafires, aparently, taken in the 80's, by some Czech visitors of Dublin.

I thought that these were gone by then...

BTW is this a camera window on the undersurfaces?

[Claudel Hopson]

Looking at your highlight and an old drawing I have put on this it looks like the port you have highlighted is a chute for parachute flares. Could be proven wrong. Will do a bit of research tomorrow in work.

[FiSe]

Thank you.
That's very early Mk.I drawing, I think that the parachute flare tube was eliminated very soon in the production, or at least I haven't seen it on any technical drawings I have - not saying that I know it all, just never heard about its presence before.

I am very curious, because, we all know about the oblique cameras, but I have never heard about the vertical camera instalation on the IAC Seafires. And this photographs could be unique, because it clearly shows the camera window of the vertical instalation, if it is a camera window.

Found this drawing in my archive, F.24 camera instalation in the Seafire:

 

[Joemax]

Hi Filip,

I suspect the wreckage in the photo with the underside "camera port" might be that of Spitfire Tr.9 No. 160 which was written off in  February 1957. I'm not sure it is a camera port. There may have been an inspection hatch or a port for some other device in that area of the fuselage.

Regards,

Joe

[FiSe]

Thanks Joe,
I got bit confused, ofcourse it is TR9 

[Tony Kearns]

Hi,
 Claudel is quite right the picture is of Spitfire and Seafires. I first had an opportunity to see this collection in early 1964 and all were removed by 1969. The Spitfire is 160 involved in the crash Feb 1957 on the aerodrome, and it can be easily identified by the fact that its port wing was ripped off. I can only guess that the item highlighted by Fise is an access panel and not for a camera mounting.The access panel for RAF Spitfires with vertical cameras was usually square shaped,  I have no evidence that the Spitfires Tr9's ever had camera equipment fitted. The access panel on the lower fuselage was for the accumulator and radio. I agree with Claudel I too have never heard of a vertical camera being fitted to the Seafires.
Tony K

[trpsarge]

Two of the three clearly have markings that seperate them as LF111s with the white square still being worn behind the fuselage boss


Other than the suggested camera port there is  positive evidence to the third AC being a Sea Fire as Opposed to T 9..possibly 160.

Unless there is a more specialized way to positivel conform that it is not a T( given the amount of write offs but the time the T(s came in service it could be assumed that it is actually a Lf 111.


Juts to confirm that 5 of the six T9s left the country was 160 scrapped or was he used instructionally or exported as part of some package.

[Claudel Hopson]

146   Vickers Supermarine VS.506 Seafire LF.III   -   17/02/47   Withdrawn from use 06/54
147   Vickers Supermarine VS.506 Seafire LF.III   -   17/02/47   Written off 05/09/47
148   Vickers Supermarine VS.506 Seafire LF.III   -   17/02/47   Written off 22/05/53
149   Vickers Supermarine VS.506 Seafire LF.III   -   17/02/47   Withdrawn from use 05/54
150   Vickers Supermarine VS.506 Seafire LF.III   -   11/07/47   Withdrawn from use 1955
151   Vickers Supermarine VS.506 Seafire LF.III   -   11/07/47   Written off 29/06/51
152   Vickers Supermarine VS.506 Seafire LF.III   -   11/07/47   Written off 01/09/49
153   Vickers Supermarine VS.506 Seafire LF.III   -   11/07/47   Withdrawn from use 06/54
154   Vickers Supermarine VS.506 Seafire LF.III   -   27/09/47   Written off 28/05/51
155   Vickers Supermarine VS.506 Seafire LF.III   -   27/09/47   Withdrawn from use 08/54
156   Vickers Supermarine VS.506 Seafire LF.III   -   27/09/47   Withdrawn from use 06/54
157   Vickers Supermarine VS.506 Seafire LF.III   -   27/09/47   Withdrawn from use 27/10/53
158   Supermarine V.S. 509 Spitfire T.9   CBAF7722   05/06/51   Current in UK as G-BMSB
159   Supermarine V.S. 509 Spitfire T.9   CBAF7269   05/06/51   Current in US as N8R
160   Supermarine V.S. 509 Spitfire T.9   CBAF?   29/06/51   Written off 15/02/57
161   Supermarine V.S. 509 Spitfire T.9   CBAF9590   29/06/51   In the UK as G-TRIX.
162   Supermarine V.S. 509 Spitfire T.9   CBAF8643   30/07/51   Current in UK as G-LFIX
163   Supermarine V.S. 509 Spitfire T.9   CBAF11432   30/07/51   Current in US as N308WK

[FiSe]

Two of the three clearly have markings that seperate them as LF111s with the white square still being worn behind the fuselage boss


Other than the suggested camera port there is  positive evidence to the third AC being a Sea Fire as Opposed to T 9..possibly 160.

Unless there is a more specialized way to positivel conform that it is not a T( given the amount of write offs but the time the T(s came in service it could be assumed that it is actually a Lf 111.


Juts to confirm that 5 of the six T9s left the country was 160 scrapped or was he used instructionally or exported as part of some package.

Top picture from left: Spit Tr.9 160, dare to say another Tr.9 /although I haven't got a clue to be honest/, Seafire 150

Middle picture from left: Spitfire Tr.9 160, unidentified airframe /that's the Tr.9, which might not be there at all/, Seafire wing

Bottom picture from left: Seafire 150, Chipmunk, Seafire 155

I am stil confused with that hole, I have marked before. From what I know, there should be no acces panel on this part of the fuselage, searching through the photographs of current Tr.9s I found that 'Grace Spitfire' has red flash light in exactly the same spot, but has faired over the usual position of this light between the wings. She has the fuselage acces panel too, but I can't see access panel on the ex163.
I wonder, do we know which subtypes of Mk.IX were used for conversion in whichever case? People who know Spitfires suggested that FR.IX fuselages could be used in some cases, which might explain that circular hole at the bottom of the fuselage, which would be faired over during the conversion.
Without even thinking that IAC could use cameras in Tr.9s. They would not fit in there anyway, because of the rear cockpit.


I'm not trying to come up with some conspiracy theories, I just think that this is an interesting feature and I'm just a bit confused - again

[Tony Kearns]

Welcome to the forum trpsarge.
The upturned fuselage with the wing still attached is the Spitfire Tr9  which crashed in Feb 1957 all the other scrap there are Seafires. The Spitfire 160 was not recovered for rebuild.
You are correct, five of the Spitfire Tr9's were sold and one remains in the USA as N9277, ex No 163 ex TE308 and is under rebuild following a ground collision.
Three are in the UK. Bayliss owned G BMSB ex MJ627 158 at Coventry,  Historic Flying Duxford G CCA ex PV202 161.
Carolyn Grace G LFIX ex ML407 162 at Bentwaters and The former US registered  N8R ex MJ772 159 now at Meier Motors in Germany.

Fise  you are correct the aperture you highlighted in the picture is a downward ID lamp aperture and I agree with your listing of the aircraft in the pictures.