Hello Folks

[Tony Kearns]

This is an aviation forum, not a political one.  However the term "ROI" is not correct.  The official English language name of the State is "Ireland".

Evening all, Short finals is correct we are not political. I would like to see people using the correct terminology as pointed out by Sf ie ROI, or other terms such as Eire, Southern Ireland, and none of this text speak please otherwise I am gone. Any takers?
Tony K

[Joe McDermott]

This is an aviation forum, not a political one.  However the term "ROI" is not correct.  The official English language name of the State is "Ireland".

Evening all, Short finals is correct we are not political. I would like to see people using the correct terminology as pointed out by Sf ie ROI, or other terms such as Eire, Southern Ireland, and none of this text speak please otherwise I am gone. Any takers?
Tony K

Here, here !

Suspect Jetman only getting used to Forum so maybe we'll cut a little slack. Lots of info coming in answer to his questions, nice answer Claudel, lots of top notch gen.

Joe

[Stanly]

One concurs with Sierra Fox, Tony and Joe. Welcome on board Jetman - look forward to more posts.

[Claudel Hopson]

Thanks Joe.

Just to put things in perspective, PILATUS has compared the performance of the PC9M as outperforming a Hawk at low level, and in the right hands can match a Hawk at medium level, (they did this comparison with Swiss Air Force Hawks before the Swiss retired them.

The Austrians, Croatians and Slovenians use their PC7's and PC9's for air interception, the same as we did during the visit of the Queen and President Obama (which surprised a lot of people at the time as to how effective the PC9 was) 

[Tempest]

That's not strictly true Claudel, there is a big difference between 'point defence' and 'interception'.  Let's not deceive ourselves, we have no military radar and the PC9 has no radar, so no 'interception' capability.  The Swiss comparison does not hold up for Ireland.  Ireland has, in effect, never had an 'interception' capability. Even 9-5

[Claudel Hopson]

Tempest You are right, the PC9 does not have radar. The mil radar in the Don is purely for ATC. However the ADR's put their ground radar's into use for the two visits, with Air Corps officers calling the intercepts, which actually worked.

These assets were proved in a number of exercises before the visits.

The PC9s put a CAP in place while the guests were in transit, and did carry out a number of intercepts during the days they were here.

As for the Swiss comparison, it was only the PC9's performance in respect to that of a Hawk.

[Ascot 1960]

Well is it safe to come back on to the forum? Now all the shouting and screaming is over!

Right ,on a lighter note, with all this chat of Air Corps Jets, it’s now 30 years to the month since I had my first close look at the Air Corps Fouga’s  (or should that be ‘Free State Air force’, only joking ). Anyway a few photos of my close encounter. Just on a technical note, I only had one step up from a box Browne in them far off days.

(Think we should put the phrase ‘Hello Folks’ to bed now)

[aw139]

Great pictures Ascot 1960.... 



Regards aw139

[Tempest]

Claudel, yes was aware of the ops during those visits, and while I acknowledge the usefulness of syncing with ADR assets in mounting a point defence of some practical value against low speed, low level local air traffic, it isn't an intercept capability as a country with an air force/military radar would recognise. 
As a by-the-by, you're the perfect man to let me know if the AC have sent anyone on RAF courses since the death of Derek Furniss?  Are BFM's still on the wings/instructors courses?  Any aspirations on adding any new weapons to the PC9s, or acquiring a target-towing pod?

[Jetman]

Thanks men for the answers.

<snip>

Fact is we are an Island country on the edge of Europe with no jets. Now why didnt we buy maybe 4 PC9s as lead ins and 4 L159s ?

Also, there are / were loads of other options, the Mig 21 Bison ? The NZ Skyhawks ? The list is endless. All answers gratefully recieved. Would just love us to have some proper jets, How can you retire Fougas and go backwards and get Props ? Honestly FUEL cannot be an excuse for this decision at all. I suspect something else, but we will get round to that later..

[Tempest]

What is it exactly that you want jets for?  If you can give a specific answer we can give you specific reasons why it didn't happen!

[aw139]

This is the most read topic i ve seen in a long time (326) and still going..




Aw139 

[Claudel Hopson]

Sorry Tempest, I cant put that info on a public forum. I do have the answers but dont want to get in trouble. I hope you understand.

[Machlooper]

Re: PC-9 V Hawk; Would love to know what the actual parameters of the test were. When they say at low level do they mean the actual performance figures (and at what height) or how the aircraft "turn and burn" as such in the low level envoiroment which to me is through rough mountainous terrain not straight and level over a bog.
(Though I suppose it's mostly mountainous in Switzerland)
I've seen both PC-9's and Hawks (lots of them!!) and flown in a Hawk at low level and from my experiance the Hawk is a nasty little machine in the right hands down in the weeds.
I've seen Hawks beat Harriers and Tonkas and even Strike Eagles (not hard) in low level dogfights.
While I appreciate that the PC-9 will probably have a better turn radius than a Hawk , IMO I'd say the Hawk would whoop the PC-9's ass across the over all flight envelope.
Of course let's not forget that Pilatus is Swiss also 

[Frank]

Lads,

Jetman has been banned, turns out it was Lootenant Pigeon putting in an appearance again... banned once, banned yet again.

We'll have to wait and see if this website of his and the Irish Times article appear, I'm sure he mentioned something along this line in his previous incarnation.


Regards,

Frank.