Air Corps: Value for Money?

[Silver]

IMHO -

- The leased CASA should have been purchased - e.g for transport usage.
- 2 x addition CASA's should be purchased - multi-role variants like the USCG purchased.
- The King Air should be replaced - kinda crazy using one of the CASA's for multi-engine
training when it could be patrolling.
- King Air/Dornier or similar aircraft for Customs/Coast Guard usage purchased (like Dutch 'Kustwach')
- 2 x Dauphins should have been retained, stripped of complicated electronics, and used as Naval Helicopters.

IMO, the Air Corps is providing vital roles to the state - troop transport, coastal patrol, air ambulance (Sweden, Holland, Greece etc etc use their military helis for air ambulance and SAR), Customs support, Coast Guard SAR support, point air defence - however it needs greater numbers and better useage of its aircraft...the CASA's in particular

This might sound radical to many but - I believe in the future (perhaps a long way in the future!) we will see UK jets based in Ireland - full time or part time - and perhaps with some Air Corps pilots flying them.

[Irish251]

IMHO -
This might sound radical to many but - I believe in the future (perhaps a long way in the future!) we will see UK jets based in Ireland - full time or part time - and perhaps with some Air Corps pilots flying them.

Why? The RAF is but a shadow of its former self and has already consolidated its assets into a limited number of bases in the UK.

[Gnat]

Probably end up as an Army co-operation unit. Back to green uniforms
A couple of Maritime aircraft, a Cessna type or an equal for FAC and lots of Helis for troop movement & comms.
Sub contract for Mats as and when required.
Thats it and switch off the light as they leave Bal.
Gnat
(I sting)

[Tempest]

This might sound radical to many but - I believe in the future (perhaps a long way in the future!) we will see UK jets based in Ireland - full time or part time - and perhaps with some Air Corps pilots flying them.
[/quote]

It wouldn't surprise me if there isn't already some tacit agreement on RAF aircraft covering our ar*e, it's already in place in allowing overflights for interception.  I'm not against what you suggest. I just think it would be dependent on the State to invest a higher percentage in Defence, to enable what you suggest to happen.  RAF aren't going to let PC9 crew into Typhoons!

[Tempest]

Probably end up as an Army co-operation unit. Back to green uniforms
A couple of Maritime aircraft, a Cessna type or an equal for FAC and lots of Helis for troop movement & comms.
Sub contract for Mats as and when required.
Thats it and switch off the light as they leave Bal.
Gnat
(I sting)

The Air Corps has never been more then an Army Co-Op unit, even during WW2.  They just haven't done it very well, which is why this is still a valid conversation.  I recall reading an interview with AC GOC in Flying in Ireland a few years back when the incumbent was saying something like "Define the role you want us to carry out and the aircraft will come out of that", but it seems to me that over the last 20 years the AC has looked for roles like SAR/Maritime Patrol/Air ambulance and not shouted as loud for military roles thinking that they'd get more airframes that way.  I think they've shot thmselves in the foot by doing so as they have lost credibility within the DoD and Governmnt. 750 bods for 20+ airframes and they also need civvie tech staff.  How would that look to someone from a credible air arm/civvie operator asked to produce a report on efficiencies in the AC?

[mickptre]

Cant help but notice some misguided statements especially the reference to the fact that "not much civvies operate at night"...what do you think the S61s have been doing since 1991, they are most certainly not night time Hangar Queens, and have chalked up hundreds of SAR/Medevac missions at night, without NVGs and were in the main, not Airport to Airport/Illuminated Helipad. Maybe you are not around long enough.

[corkspotter]

Good morning Mickptre,

As the statement said, " Not much Civvies", didnt say "all civvies".

The coast guard S61's are an obvious exception to which everyone has great admiration for and that this country would be lost without them. The statement was made with regards to the call out of the Air Corps on dedicated and planned air ambulance missions and inter hospital transfers. The statement was aimed at companies who operate as dedicated air ambulance services and HEMS servicesin the UK as we dont have any here yet. I was already corrected on this point.

Nobody having a dig or forgetting about the coast guard, as they are very rarely used in this role, and as i previously said are an obvious exception to which we all admire the skills and the bravery of the crew.

Regards,

Paul

[mickptre]

Just completed a SAR mission 130NM west of Eagle Island Co. Mayo tonight and may I say what a great sense of relief to know that Charlie 253 was over us for the duration of the mission, many thanks to the lads of the Maritime Patrol Aircraft for the great sense of security afforded to us on our SAR missions.

Best Regards and thanks a million from the crew of Rescue 118 from Sligo

[Tempest]

Way off thread.

[mickptre]

"way off thread" If referring to the fact that the Air Corps Casa conducted a very important Top Cover mission for a Rescue Operation of our coast is not related to "value for money" which is the title of the thread by the way, then how else will people judge value for money of the Air Corps but only by seeing/reading of the missions undertaken by the Air Corps in aid to those in distress of our coast. So careful now that you don't fall of your high and mighty horse while your at it.

[corkspotter]

Fair Play Mickptre, Another difficult and successful mission.

Tempest, not really off topic when it shows that the Air Corps can provide top cover for long range SAR missions and as you can see, the help from 253 was greatly appreciated.

I think it's time to put an end to this thread as it seems that you just have a gripe with the air corps and no matter what anybody says, they are wrong and you are right.. Your boring me know!

Regards,

Paul

[corkspotter]

"way off thread" If referring to the fact that the Air Corps Casa conducted a very important Top Cover mission for a Rescue Operation of our coast is not related to "value for money" which is the title of the thread by the way, then how else will people judge value for money of the Air Corps but only by seeing/reading of the missions undertaken by the Air Corps in aid to those in distress of our coast. So careful now that you don't fall of your high and mighty horse while your at it.

Well said Mickptre!

[skyview]

Well done to both aircrew...

[Tempest]

Sorry guys, but I was referring to the earlier posts on the 'civvie' issue, not the topcover post.  Should have made that more obvious

[Claudel Hopson]

Maybe this piece from Dr Anthony O'Connor might shed some better light on this and another thread, I'll post it there as well

http://www.medicalindependent.ie/page.aspx?title=it_really_is_a_great_little_country