Why no NATO

[Guinness]

Question:

why didn't Ireland join NATO?

I may have missed some history classes here in The Netherlands but is the reason your "issue " with the UK?

Please help me out here.

Guinness

[n-e-foo]

Hey Guinness.
Your absolutely right, the issue with the UK was the reason we did not join Nato in the 50's. The neutrality thing is a load of bullshit.

We were invited to join Nato but we turned it down as it would have meant recognising the UK owning the 6 Counties of northern Ireland. However, we approached the USA twice in the 50's with regard to a mutual defence treaty. They declined on both occasions. Can you blame them?

Now neutrality is popular with the Irish population... which is the main reason we havent joined.

But theres lots of rumours about american offers of loads of military equipment to try and get us to join, throughout the 70's and 80's. Everything from naval ships to f-16's. There is also rumours about Knock airport being built with Nato funding. But largely these are all just rumours.

Governments are warey of joining Nato, or even sorting the EU mutual defence policy now because it wont go down well with the electorate.

The simple fact however is that we are not neutral, nor were we ever truely neutral. I wish we'd just join and stop this charade.... that or actually give a damn about our defence forces.

[alpha foxtrot 07]

we kinda sorta joined when we signed up to the partnership for peace deal, its run under a nato banner.

[Silver]

I reckon we will end up joining some sort of defence pact eventually - not that I necessarily agree with that.

IMHO, The pfp deal is a way to gently get the Irish public used to the idea of Ireland being part of such groups.

[Imshi-Yallah]

Because cowardice apathy and hypocrisy are national institutions as if anyone but us gains from our neutrality and the absence of a real military capacity.
If people could stop being afraid of things for long enough to see that greed gets them nothing then they might realise that those poor oppressed people (this title may not apply to the very same people when they turn up in Ireland) would actually much rather have Irish soldiers killing the people who are troubling them instead of a bunch of "heroes" having a mass demonstration in the safety of Dublin.
Until the SWP and PANA start sending suicide bombers against UNITA or the RUF they aren't helping anyone but themselves.

[sealion]

Quote (alpha foxtrot 07 @ 16 Jan. 2004,21:44)

we kinda sorta joined when we signed up to the partnership for peace deal, its run under a nato banner.

SHHH!!
Dont be sayin that out loud..the crusties will be getting ideas..

[alpha foxtrot 07]

Quote (sealion @ 17 Jan. 2004,17:50)

Quote (alpha foxtrot 07 @ 16 Jan. 2004,21:44) we kinda sorta joined when we signed up to the partnership for peace deal, its run under a nato banner. SHHH!! Dont be sayin that out loud..the crusties will be getting ideas..

OOOOOOKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!

[John K]

When I was an apprentice in the mid '70s we were told by the then GOC Air Corps that in the future we would wear a blue uniform and be in NATO, well the blue uniform arrived long after I left but the NATO membership is not yet in the picture. Although as you say n-e-foo, Ireland was never truly neutral. DeValera kept a good position during WW2 although Churchills' propaganda still lives to this day over here in the UK, people still believe that U-boats used to fill up with supplies in Irish ports, even though the British navy kept them under watch.
As Wings Over Ireland (a book by Donal Mc Carron) says, any Luftwaffe aircrew who found themselves landing on Irish soil were interrned, whereas Allied aircrew said that they were on a training mission and were repatrited to the North and handed over to the Authorities. There was even an RAF Officer training Air Corps crews! And what about the Radar dishes beside Shannon Airport? Don't they feed in to the UK Air Defence network? So like you say, cut the crap and just join!

[FiannaFail]

Guinness,
From my socio/political/military understanding of the present situation NATO is on its lasts legs and that an European Defence Union will develop out of the  European Rapid Reaction Force.  I have no doubt we here in Ireland will play an important role in this new development, situated as we are on the western flanks of this great union.
By the way I remember meeting uop with some Dutch military personnel in the early 1970s on a training outing. I recall that on those days Dutch soldiers were aloud to have long hair. Is that still the position today?
Kind regards,
FiannaFail :'>

[Tony Kearns]

John,
Being interested in the more historical aspects of the Air Corps,the position of the internees was that all Germans were interned because if they landed in Ireland they HAD to be on an operational mission. The position for the British was different and here again Mac Carron gets it wrong, there are many cases when RAF personnel were interned even though they were on training flights e.g. the Fairey Battle at Waterford the Polish pilot was interned, the Miles Master in Co. Louth, the Blenheim at Clontarf and so on(slightly different it was an unauthorised flight). The position of F/Lt West was that he was running a conversion course on the Miles Master and Hurricane just like they did in Turkey or Portugal, neutrals who operated some British types. The Irish Government was anxious to release all the internees after a certain period but the British were opposed to this for some time as they were anxious that no U boat personnel(who were in short supply) were released, but as it happened there were none interned until March 1945. They Irish had to feed and guard the internees at a cost. How I wonder could the Germans have got to Germany of France. The Irish Government continued to adopt a pragmatic approach, there was little else that we could do.
Best regards,
Tony K

[FiannaFail]

Well put Tony, it explains our position during the Second World War excellently!
FiannaFail '>

[Guinness]

FF,

Yep, our "soldiers are still allowed to have long hair but the fashion has changed over the last years.
In this era non of our "fighting men" wears long hair.

About using the SF-260 for CAP is the same as using a crossbow for Air defence

Guinness

[202]

Just to add to Tony K's accurate analysis of the internment policy of the Irish Government - while the Germans were interned it was a liberal interpretation of the term and they were frequent visitors to dances and cafes in Co. Kildare and Dublin. And as Tony says they were not in a position to go anywhere in any event so to draw any major political conclusion regarding the Government's approach to neutrality from the difference in treatment between them and the Commonwealth internees is inaccurate.

[Guinness]

Thanks for some historyclass there everybody .

And 202.... welcome to the forum!

Bejaysus.... that's 4 time in a week that I've welcomed some one.


Frank your site does work well.
Keep it up

Guinness

[Irish Marine]

I am glad to see this topic!!!!!! I mentioned this idea years ago on boomers site,and also the pdfora site-gosh I got attacked by everyone. It is cetainly time that Ireland joined NATO.  It would be great if Ireland got decent equipment,and it would be great for the moral in the ranks. If you want to learn about the internee's during World War Two in Ireland, just watch the movie called the bill cream boys!!!!. It was not uncommon to see internee's going into Nass, and attending the balls at the old lawlers ball room!!!!!!!!!.