Second Hand Aircraft

[FMolloy]

With such a small fleet, maintaining multiple airframes for the same roles is costly & wastes time. The use of the AC's limited resources should be maximised.

In fact I'd probably scrap the 8 A111's altogether & go with the 6 AB412's, less heli's but more lift capability.

Why keep the Dauphin for the Rangers? That would mean operating 3 different utility helicopters for troop transport, it doesn't make sense.

[clan]

I kept the Dauphin for the rangers as they could be armed permanently or just on special occasions. Plus we already own them, same reason for keeping the A111's they are paid for very usefull, and technicans know them inside out. Plus there is a few years left in them, and the use of as many aircraft without the expense of buying them is the idea behind the list.
8 A111's and 6 AB412's would have more lift capability then 6 AB412s.

[FMolloy]

I meant as a direct comparrison between the two types, 6 AB412's could carry more than 8 A111's.

Granted, the techs do know there way around the A111 & Dauphin, but on top of that they now have to learn about a new heli. This means more training, new spare parts etc.

Three heli's, withall with different components & spare parts,  doing the same job is a waste of resources.

[Imshi-Yallah]

Anyone for tennis?

Quote

Look at the New Zealand AIR FORCE situation - they have no similar combat aircraft whatsoever

Well with a considerable air transport and MPA capability I'd rate the RNZAF considerably higher than the IAC with its theoretical strike force.

Note to enemy ground commander, please accept this IOU for the delivery of 6x MK82 500lb bombs, unavailable due to financial constraints and the complete exit of reality from the building.
Yours etc.
J Moron OIC Irish display and attack Sqn
 '>

[clan]

I completely see your point and it is correct, But with money so scarce for anything military. And we currently own two of these types of aircraft and will never get enough LUH to do the job properly. It is to improvise and use what is available until we have enough LUH's to do a decent job. I real money was available we should replace the whole fleet, but I cannot see that happening. Variety is the spice of life.
We could also ask Bush to come back and visit us when we could protect him, He may feel sorry for us and release some Blackhawks and F16's for some votes.

[Imshi-Yallah]

An air corps with 6 MLHs and nothing else would be better off than anything we are looking at in the next decade


Does this look like an effective transport to you?

[clan]

it looks fantastic to me

[Fouga]

There is nothing wrong with our dauphins.

[Imshi-Yallah]

Quote (clan @ 01 April 2004,09:48)

it looks fantastic to me

Put your flagrant aerosexuality aside for just one moment, you couldn't fit six fully kitted infantrymen in that cabin, and I've seen a dauphin struggle with six people on board and no kit (in fact as I recall they had to ditch two passengers).
Its useless to us, what we need are helicopters that fulfill a role not that look fancy.

[clan]

Important point here, the A111 the Dauphin and the Gazelle are PAID for, we own them, they work, they will find a role in any Army/Air Force in the world. So hold onto them and find roles for them, just because I think a Dauphin cannot do this or that. does not mean it cannot be used in this role as is proven with these helicopters in different forces around the world.
The Dauphin is used as a small troop carrier, Fact, So is the A111. A mini is a family car that is a fact, I cannot see how but it is.
Money is not available we all know that, so do not throw out what you can use and enhance the fleet and find jobs for the old equipment that is perfectly good to last another number of years.

[Taj]

The perfectly good equipment you talk about is not perferfectly good unless it is invested in SIGNIFICANTLY.
Alouette-a great helicopter but unfortunately will become a spares nightmare in years to come.Too small for any troop transport role and that is why something slightly bigger will be sought.
Dauphin-already a spares nightmare and we may own them, but the upgrade cost is outlandish.
The thinking is that by replacing the entire fleet with a more capable helicopter the Air Corps will operate increasingly with the Army.As the demand for use from the Army increases, maybe there will be a need for new airframes(in theory).The Alouettes were not all bought in the one go.
40 year old helicopters are not "perfectly good" for any half decent operational capability.Progress no matter how small is still progress.I would love to see more than 6 helicopters being bought,but the decision has been made and unfortunately all discussion on the matter of retention is pointless.I can even tell you that an Alouette has been earmarked for the new National Museum Transport/Military Building which is currently under construction.Two other already retired types(Vampire and Fouga) have also been committed so that will give you an idea of how limited the Alouette's time actually is.

[clan]

I am nearly sure I said downgrade the Dauphins to Analogue.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/as565/as5656.html
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/as565/as5653.html
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/as565/as5652.html

[Silver]

Glad to see that sarcasm is alive and well on this board - eh Imshi '>

I was merely making the point that at least the IAC have a strike capability - and it is a CORPS as opposed to a FORCE.

Obviously the RNZAF have a good transport and MPA capability - something which the AC need to improve - but they still have no similar attack aircraft.

(N.B - I'm not interested in getting into a drawn out debate on this. So I'll leave it at that.)

Regards,
Silver.

[Imshi-Yallah]

You mean that your argument is indefensible.

[Taj]

To alter the configuration of the Dauphins to the Panther standard would involve upgrading.Replacing 20 year old avionics and equipment with new systems-no matter the intended role is still considered an UPGRADE.
What you might be getting at is a downgrading of roles but this still requires an upgrade in avionics and systems.The Dauphins uses in its current configuration are extremely limited.The only advantage it offers over Alouettes at the moment are twin engines.
To make the Dauphins feasable for a particular role still would cost a significant amount of money.
As I was saying the decision has been taken and thats it.