Author Topic: AN COSANTOIR  (Read 565 times)

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Offline pilatus

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AN COSANTOIR
« on: May 01, 2004, 02:03:01 pm »
in the April edition of AN COSAINTOIR there is an article about irish army snipers and their training program and the author revealed that in this particular excercise that the AirCorps provided 2xdauphin and 2A111 helicopters to ferry them around the site.is the corps getting more and more involved with the army now that SAR is gone and how often are these support flights being flown?also in the newsletter CONNECT which accompained it they talk about the irish armys cavalry units training with the ukranian air force were by a single ukraine heavy lift heli flew 2irish panhard AML90/20 armoured cars to a droppoint while an mi17 flew in the crew for the vehicles.according to it the ukraine helis are going to transport irish patrols to different locations in libreia!imagine 3xs92 they could do the same.what a great capability this could be! ':<img:'>
above and beyond

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« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2004, 11:48:46 am »
From my contacts, a very significant proprtion of helicopter missions this year have been Army Support training missions, somewhere in the region of 65 - 70 percent. The ability of the technicians and engineers to plan ahead on maintenance to enable four, five and even six helicopters to be available has increased because they no longer have to worry about having two helis available for SAR all the time. Some personnel shakeups have also aided the situation over the last couple of years. For the May day operation, I believe that there were ten helicopters available for military use, counting the gazelle. It's not unusual now for an army unit to request a helicopter for an exercise and end up getting three or four on the day. The pilots are loving it too, because for the young fellas that wouldn't be up to SAR standard for a couple of years, it's a great challenge to plan and execute these missions. It's also a bit more exciting than sitting on standby for a week at a time and the army has some great imagination on how to employ the helis on exercise.

Offline pilatus

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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2004, 07:56:37 pm »
but u cant help wonder 6helis to replace 12 but was 15!its rediculous to say the least! '<img'> even when the new helis arrive the techies and mechies will have about 4 avaible for use but if the 4EC145 and 2EC135 are bought as it is rumoured there wil be less than 4 avaible for use with the army as the 2EC135 will be used for training!its madif i were the corps i would keep 4 of the a111suntil sometime when more can be bought.if FG wins the elections this year then SAR might be restored which would see at least another 6helis needed immediatley! '[<img'>
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Offline Imshi-Yallah

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« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2004, 08:10:31 pm »
The personnel may be getting valuable preparation for the role but the airframes are continuing to demonstrate their lack of suitability for modern military ops.
I notice that during the "touch and go" heli ops photo in an cosantor the Dauphin's rotors appeared static, also two man lifts are of very little use outside of a course situation.
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Dante Alighieri

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AN COSANTOIR
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2004, 08:13:03 pm »
Nope, the rotors never shut down. It's not a good idea to take up a public highway with a helicopter that won't start up again!

Offline Imshi-Yallah

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« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2004, 04:35:57 pm »
Quote (Imshi-Yallah @ 02 May 2004,11:10)
I notice that during the "touch and go" heli ops photo in an cosantor the Dauphin's rotors appeared static, also two man lifts are of very little use outside of a course situation.

Oops just re-examined that photo, the rotors were indeed rotating
‘The hottest place in hell is for those who are neutral’
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AN COSANTOIR
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2004, 09:04:19 pm »
If I'm correct, the Dauphin with the journalist was the only aircraft that had two on board, which is probably why it was reported that way, but the section of helis shifted thirteen in total. And they were on time too! Of course it would be nice to lift more troops with fewer helis but 145s are no better. For instance, seven Alouettes could lift 28 fighting order troops and the 4 Dauphins could lift a further 24. That's 52 by my basic maths. If the 135s are committed to training, that leaves the 145s with a capacity of 8 in the back. So 4 can lift 32 troops in total. Now we aint talking huge distances in either scenario, and people may argue that not all the Alouettes and Dauphins will be available at the same time, but how often are all the 145s going to be available at the same time? You could lose 2 Dauphins and 2 Alouettes to servicing or other commitments and still retain the same capacity as all 4 145s. And before anyone says I've miscounted the seats in the Dauphin and Alouette, I'm allowing them a certain amount of spare lift capacity which is standard in tactical operations (which I haven't for the 145 which would place it further at a disadvantage). What I'm getting at is that we are taking a step backwards from current military capacity by looking at a fleet of 6 luh and especially by looking at a civil heli like the 145 which has no provision for weaponry, no special team insertion capability, no countermeasures and is unlikely to stand up to heavy military (ab)use.

Offline John K

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AN COSANTOIR
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2004, 02:03:31 pm »
Get PUMAS!!!!

Offline Buran

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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2004, 12:47:00 am »
I think the way to do "their" maths is the 4 dauphins are replaced by nothing as we wont be doing SAR. The 2 EC135s replace the previous 2 gazelles, and so the 4 EC145 are replacing just the 7 AIIIs, which you kinda prove by your logic.