Author Topic: Neutraility?  (Read 2875 times)

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Offline FiannaFail

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« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2004, 07:14:13 pm »
Well said Frank!!
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Patricia Guerin

Offline yeehah1

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« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2004, 03:58:36 am »
Ireland has never been truely neutral. We repatriated English and American airmen during the alleged "Emmergency" and apparently refuelled and restocked German U-Boats down Kerry way.
We allowed American military personnel to transit to England, provided they wore civilian threads and more than a few people were rooting for the Germans to bloody Churchills' nose.

In fact, I heard an interview on radio several months ago with either one of  DeVelera's sons/nephews or grandsons. After wards they played part of a speech DeVelera made to the Dail after the War when he had been asked to explain why Ireland had remained neutral when the rest of the World ( bar a few) took up the fight against Nazism.

Apparently, his reasoning was, what if hte Germans had won? How would it appear to them if we had openly supported England in their war against Germany? How bad would it have been for Ireland?
It didn't matter, at any point between 1939 and 1945 , that the Allies were actually winning and that it would be SAFE to throw in on their side.
No, better not to help the real enemy, the English. How disappointed he must have been that Germany lost?
And that arguement loses all credibilty once the D-Day landings succeeded.

Still, all's well that ends well.
And the Spitfire prints are almost ready.
Cheers,
Liam

Offline n-e-foo

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« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2004, 04:36:11 pm »
I dont believe the "apparent" refueling of Nazi submarines ever took place, only when I see real evidence will I believe it.

My reasoning? Umm lets see, Nazi submarines sinking Irish Shipping and I dont know...  ummm the total lack of fuel entering this country in the first place. How on earth would we have gotten a tanker out to a submarine, loaded with fuel and food which the rest of us were doing without?

Show me evidence.

The stuff with the allies is all true.

I wouldnt be too critical of DeValeras rationalisation for not entering the war. Its easy to criticise 60+ years after the event.

Offline pilatus

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« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2004, 05:39:20 pm »
maybe they were refuelled and then again maybe they werent?? '<img'> no body knows for certain or do they?but n-e-foo has a point why refuel the people who were blowing up our ships and if they were being refuelled they would have done so at some port/harbour because i dont think we had that many tankers just sitting in ports with nothing better to do than refuel nazi submarines also the aircorps even had fuel shortages with some flights being kept on the ground so that the Ansons could be kept up in the air to patrol our coasts looking for submarines!it doesnt make sense!?!
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Offline n-e-foo

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« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2004, 05:52:38 pm »
It should also be noted when this rumour was started, it originally said the submarines were being refuelled in Donegal... until someone realised... "hey.. the Donegal corridor...what the HELL?!".. in other words, the RAF were going over that area on a daily basis... so obviously in response the rumour has sent the Submarines down to Kerry. The amount of planning that would be needed to refuel a submarine means that something like this would have gotten out... and if it had, this would have been tantamount to declaring war on Britain, we would have been invaded. There's no way in hell any right thinking individual could have partaken in this. No way. Jesus even the Nazi spy who got here and saw for himself the state of the IRA couldnt escape the country when he wanted to... and at the same time we were refueling Subs? methinks not

Anyway this is only a small point, but I get very angry when I hear certain people (yehaw, you're NOT one of them) who obviously have a problem with our country and start spouting utter rubbish about how we were pro Nazi during WW2 - while leaving out the ever so minor point of allowing British prisoners to go north of their own will, the Donegal corridor, weather reports, etc etc. Why do I get angry about it? Because it's a bloody dangerous rumour that no doubt some people will believe and base their opinion of this country on.

I'd love to know the minds of those that come up with this junk





Offline pilatus

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« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2004, 06:06:40 pm »
damed right n-e-foo the spy was called herman goretz i think?
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Offline n-e-foo

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« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2004, 06:14:25 pm »
Yup your right '<img'>

I think that he also stated that the IRA didnt learn even basic encryption techniques and didnt own a single Wireless, so the idea that the IRA might have been behind the refueling of Nazi submarines is even more far fetched than the notion that it was done by the State.

Offline Tony Kearns

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« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2004, 06:20:41 pm »
Ireland's neutrality was pragmatic.

Ireland had just come through a horrific economic war with Britain. Why should Ireland have joined in the war? We had a small army, sufficient aircraft only, to equip a mixed operational squadron, no navy, very little arms and no money.

The other neutrals adopted a pragmatic policy also. The USA was neutral and did not enter the war until attacked. It did very well out of supplying Britain and France (until surrender) with all sort of supplies ( and before you start jumping up and down I am not anti USA). The USAAF did not arrive in Britain until July 1942. Sweden supplied ball bearings to Germany to manufacture aircraft engines to bomb Britain. Sweden supplied ball bearings to Britain to manufacture aircraft engines to bomb Germany.....pragmatic? The end of the war left Britain almost bankrupt very little gold reserves, where were they gone ?

n-e-foo is quite correct about the old hoary chestnut of refuelling submarines..... no evidence.

Internees (they were not prisoners) would have been released within months of their arrival (as the other neutral did) but the Royal Navy was opposed to this, papers in the National Archives (PRO) at Kew document these discussions. Britain was not interested in the Treaty Ports ( except Swilly) which it had plans to take over (again documents in the N/A Kew) The policy was that the manpower, equipment and aircraft required to defend the bases from attack was excessive.
There is no doubt neutrality was formulated in favour of the Allies, the Donegal Corridors, rescues vessels at Killybegs and the mouth of the Shannon, refuelling aircraft  and so on. It is called pragmatism.
Tony K

Offline pilatus

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« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2004, 09:05:16 pm »
The german spy Herman Goretz also said that he had to cancel an attempt to smuggle arms from germany to ireland on a trawler because the IRA men who were manning the boat could not agree on which of them would be in command!was there any similar attempt sucessful or not to get arms into the country during ww2?
It is also clear that we were more supportive to the allies than the nazis because in 1940 we were offered huge quantities of weapons from the germans ie tanks,light armoured vehicles,artillery and various rifles and machine guns(all of which was abandoned by the BEF(british expeditionary force) on and around the beaches of Dunkirk!Devalera declined saying it would be politically incorrect to accept them but thanked them for the offer!but as soon as the british offered us light trainers,withdrawn fighters and small arms we accepted them straight away!
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Offline FMolloy

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« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2004, 11:12:57 am »
The rumours that u-boats were refuelling in Eire was started by the unionists/loyalists in N.I. There is no truth to it.
D'oh!

Offline pilatus

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« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2004, 11:56:46 am »
just another point on neutraility which i dont think anyone has mentioned is our secret service,they are constantly involved with Mi5 of britain and other specail service operations.rumours have it they are in volved in tracking down terrorists across europe and the world as we speak and i also heard that Mi5 in britain even hires them to carry out tasks for the british government?!please correct me if im wrong?!?! '<img'>



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Offline Imshi-Yallah

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« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2004, 12:55:29 pm »
You're wrong
‘The hottest place in hell is for those who are neutral’
Dante Alighieri

Offline FiannaFail

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« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2004, 12:35:20 am »
No comment - cetainly not over the internet!! Leave our intelligence services alone please!!
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Patricia Guerin

Offline Guinness

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« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2004, 10:00:32 pm »
Why FF,

are they after you '<img'>
 ':p'

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Offline John K

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« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2004, 12:58:44 am »
Tony Kearns, when are you going to write a book? Especially about Eire during WW2, as you've said before people believe what was in Wings Over Ireland as they don't have anything else to go on.
Are you going to RIAT? I'll be there on the Friday.
Best wishes, JK