Silver Swallows

[FMolloy]

The AC exist to do a job, not to entertain the public at air shows.

[matt_k]

Thats true but I think the public deserve to see what some of their tax money is funding..

[Flyboy]

FMolloy, so please explain why most airforces have display teams !

[clan]

Its also brilliant PR for the Air Corp. Look how well received the Red Arrows are all over the world. And how highly regarded they are in the UK.

[FMolloy]

The public deserve an AC that can carry out it's tasks effectively, not a few minutes entertainment once a year in Galway. The AC is a relatively small organisation with quite a wide range of tasks to perform, sometimes it has to prioritise & airshows aren't at the top of the list. It's very unfair to complain about their lack of presence at Salthill considering the effort they've put into displays in the past.

There's been some major changes to the AC this year & the organisation is in a state of flux. If they didn't send more aircraft to Salthill it's because they were required elsewhere, were out for maintainance or the pilots were unavailable. Cut them some slack.

I am not saying that airshows & display teams are a waste of time. I agree that airshows are good PR, but you've got to remember that any appearance at them is subject to operational requirements.

The AC aren't there for our amusement.

[clan]

Good Points FMolloy, but the Air Corp knew maybe 12 months in advance when the airshow was to be held so they could have worked something out with the small amount of Aircraft they currently have to show the public what they are about. They have very little PR, which is a shame and there profile within Jo Publics eyes is very low.
So it is hard to explain to Jo Public why a brand new Hospital is lying idle because of lack of funds and then they read in the Newspaper air Corp to get Euro 50m for new helicopters which the Jo Public never get to see or know what they do.
So while I take your points on Board, something should have been worked out to out on a good show in Galway. Which is why other air Forces have display teams and why they send them around the world, PR starts at home.

[FMolloy]

How do you know they could have worked something out? Are you privvy to the decision making of AC management?

Knowing 12 months in advance doesn't mitigate against operational requirements, aircraft breakdown or crew availability. What if the aircraft were suddenly needed elsewhere? What if there was a breakdown that couldn't be fixed in time? What if the crew assigned got sick & couldn't attend?

The AC's been appearing at airshows for years & it hasn't made much of a difference to their PR image, so missing one isn't the end of the world.

I'm sorry you were dissapointed by the poor turn-out, but there's more important things than air shows.

[FMolloy]

The other air forces that have display teams have a lot more resources than the AC, they can afford to spare the aircraft, pilots & ground crew without it impacting on their operational capabilities.

[clan]

Are you trying to tell me all the Warriors were on operational Duties??? Doing what may I ask, preventing hi Jacked jet liners entering Irish airspace. Or maybe they were all in the Hanger getting repaired at the same time, or all the operational crews and students were sick at the same time!!!. Same goes for the A111's or the Cessna's.
And it is bloomin obvious they could have worked someone out at such short notice 12mths minimum.
They don't have a PR image, get the point that is been made.
They need to get one.

[clan]

My Comment about intercerpting Jetliners was unfair and I take it back. But my Points remain the same. Also I would like to mention a conversation I had with one Ex Naval service, and one Serving Army Officer. Both could only name the Dauphin and A111 as current Air Corp craft as well as the Lear Jet. They knew there were more but did not know what they were. Army Officer, says and I quote. The Air Corp should be disbanded and we should ask the RAF for protection, they(air corp) have no decent equipment, and what they have they do not know how to use and they are 9 to 5 workers. The Ex Naval guy agreed, but he likes the Dauphin as he had some trips in it, plus the Blue plane looks pretty cool. These are guys with over 40 years combined service to the DF. If they do not know what the Air Corp have or do. How are the rest of us going to find out.
Both of these people, are very proud of the DF and there roles in it. And both know current Air Corp Officers from College or from service overseas. Both attended the Airshow and loved it, and both complained about the Irish Contribution.

[Imshi-Yallah]

I want I want I want I want!!!
You children are why they coined the neologism aerosexual

[sealion]

Quote (clan @ 07 Aug. 2004,06:02)

My Comment about intercerpting Jetliners was unfair and I take it back. But my Points remain the same. Also I would like to mention a conversation I had with one Ex Naval service, and one Serving Army Officer. Both could only name the Dauphin and A111 as current Air Corp craft as well as the Lear Jet. They knew there were more but did not know what they were. Army Officer, says and I quote. The Air Corp should be disbanded and we should ask the RAF for protection, they(air corp) have no decent equipment, and what they have they do not know how to use and they are 9 to 5 workers. The Ex Naval guy agreed, but he likes the Dauphin as he had some trips in it, plus the Blue plane looks pretty cool. These are guys with over 40 years combined service to the DF. If they do not know what the Air Corp have or do. How are the rest of us going to find out. Both of these people, are very proud of the DF and there roles in it. And both know current Air Corp Officers from College or from service overseas. Both attended the Airshow and loved it, and both complained about the Irish Contribution.

Why would they need to know? In the real world there are more important things to worry about than  memorise the inventory of the defence forces. There are many Serving soldiers who have no Idea what a panhard is..because they do not need to know. NS personell would only be familiar with those aircraft that they had worked with.

The 9 to 5 worker comment is particularly relevent to the naval service,who many times watched as the Dauphin returned to the don for tea while they continued on their patrol.

PR is the job of somebody like Cawley Nea. Defence of the state is the Job of the defence forces. Public demonstrations are something that can only be done if there is nothing better to do.

As for knowledge of matters military,could you name all the Ships in the NS without doing a Google? Could you then say who holds the position of master at arms? Can you tell me what an effer is?
I wont hold it against you if you dont,because you don't need to.

[clan]

I can do the ships, no idea what an Effer is though!
Their point been and we have discussed this many times, the Naval service chap knows quite a lot about the Army and what they have and have not and what they want. The Army Officer was the same about the Naval Service. But neither could clearly identify what the Air Corp have equipment wise or what they did with it. And my point been, the Air Corp needs a higher profile, which should lead to more funding as it becomes more palatable to the tax payer to fork out for more modern equipment. And an Air Show on the West Coast, attended by over 100k people some of whom have travelled from as far as Cork and Donegal would be a good place to start increasing that profile. That is my point.

[alpha foxtrot 07]

the air corps do not work with the navy, and have very limited interaction with the army. how can you expect these peolpe to know anything about the corps. i bet there tune will change when the corps starts moving them around in the new choppers.

[clan]

Both are very interested in the DF, and one got as high as he could in the Naval service before retiring. The Army Officer wants also to get as high as possible. Both are Career Soldiers. They do not see it as a job.
Does the Casa's not work with the Naval Service, do the Army Especially the Ranger wing not work with the Air Corp.
Again you are missing the point, if two career minded members of the Defence forces do not know hand on heart what Equipment the Air Corp have where they use that equipment how can the General Public know and how can the purchase of new equipment be sanctioned with out public discontent. Without good PR and Public perception, and this involves sending some equipment over to an Airshow on the West Coast. That is the point been made,