Silver Swallows

[FMolloy]

Surely the NS guy would have encountered the AC during fisheries protection ops?

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how can the General Public know and how can the purchase of new equipment be sanctioned with out public discontent. Without good PR and Public perception, and this involves sending some equipment over to an Airshow on the West Coast.

Firstly, the government doesn't need to consult the public about the day-to-day running of it's departments, things would be a mess otherwise.

Secondly, how can having aircraft do some fancy flying at Salthill educate the public as to the AC's real roles? The PC-9 is going to provide basic & advanced flight training to AC pilots and is an important part of the inventory, but send it to Salthill and all the public are going to see is some aerobatics.

How can a bit of fancy flying convince the average member of the public that the AC fufills a vital role?

[clan]

They will then know what they paid for, They will see what they have read about, simple.

[FMolloy]

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They will then know what they paid for, They will see what they have read about, simple.

People can see the Spike in the middle of O'Connell St. They know what they've paid for there, but a lot of people still think it's a waste of money.

Not so simple.

[clan]

I haven't seen it but I am sure I paid for it. not so simple

[Flyboy]

Do we understand from your comments/views FMolloy that you think airdisplays are a waste of tax payers money or just Irish taxpayers money, but it is OK if it is UK taxpayers money, like the 100,000 Irish people who watched The Red Arrows at Sligo, they didn't contribute 1 cent to their upkeep, on the otherhand as a UK taxpayer I DO, yet I didn't see them at Sligo.

[FMolloy]

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I haven't seen it but I am sure I paid for it. not so simple

You're suggesting that if the public see what the defence budget is being spent on, they'll appreciate the purchase & become supportive of it. I'm saying that if the public condiser defence purchases as a waste of money (which a lot do) then seeing said equipment will do nothing to change their mind, especially when said equipment is engaged in something as 'frivolous' as doing aerobatics at an air show.

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Do we understand from your comments/views FMolloy that you think airdisplays are a waste of tax payers money

If you had read my previous posts properly, you'd know that I don't have any such views. My point is that the AC's priority is operations, not airshows. It doesn't deserve the criticism being levelled at it here for not putting on a good enough show at Salthill.

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...or just Irish taxpayers money, but it is OK if it is UK taxpayers money, like the 100,000 Irish people who watched The Red Arrows at Sligo, they didn't contribute 1 cent to their upkeep, on the otherhand as a UK taxpayer I DO, yet I didn't see them at Sligo.

I never once mentioned the Red Arrows, I have no say in where they go or who they perform to. If you're not happy with paying for the entertainment of foreign audiences then take it up with your government rather than whinging at us.

I also never said it was a waste of taxpayer's money, try actually reading posts before getting on your high horse.

[clan]

The Majority of the people would become supportive, especially if they knew we are protecting people in many nations across the world with 30 old Armoured cars for example. And the 100k+ people that turned up in Salthill, some having travelled from the opposite ends of the country. They did not come to see the Aer Arrann ATR72, even though it is a nice Plane. They came to see among other things the Red Arrows the RAF the Air Corp. My whole point been operations aside the Aer Corp seemed not to bother with a public display or PR excerise because and this is  my perception and other peoples that they could not be bothered as it was on the West Coast. No way do I accept that all aircraft bar the ones that showed up were on operational duties or in the yard for maintence.
No one is above Criticisim that includes me.
Perception is reality, they were not interested in a show on the West Coast so they did not bother with it. It is a fact.

[FMolloy]

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The Majority of the people would become supportive, especially if they knew we are protecting people in many nations across the world with 30 old Armoured cars for example.

The reason that we have 30 year-old armoured vehicles is because no one in this country cares about defence. Even when the DF got the Mowags, there was complaints from many that these were 'toys for the boys' & we should be spending the money on hospitals.

In the last few years there has been much said publically on the plight of the DF, yet there has been no public outcry & no real increase in defence spending. Defence is a non-issue to the vast majority of the public.

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My whole point been operations aside the Aer Corp seemed not to bother with a public display or PR excerise because and this is  my perception and other peoples that they could not be bothered as it was on the West Coast. No way do I accept that all aircraft bar the ones that showed up were on operational duties or in the yard for maintence.

If the AC were not bothered because it was on the west coast then why did they turn up in past years? And have you not considered that maybe the aircrew were not available? How many were out sick? How many were performing other duties? How many were on leave? Unless you know all the facts don't be jumping to conclusions.

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Perception is reality, they were not interested in a show on the West Coast so they did not bother with it. It is a fact.

What utter nonsense.  Unless you can come up with evidence of the AC's suppposed apathy, there's no way you can call any of your assumptions fact.

[Flyboy]

I used the Red Arrows as an example, I could have said the Harriers, or the Germans etc etc, I was not making a direct quote. I was not as you say "whinging" simply stating a fact regarding the 100,000 people at the show not paying 1 PENNY towards the costs. You never said it was a waste of tax payers money, but you did imply it. You are so pedantic, it's not worth discussing this topic any further with you. I'm off on my high horse now, I have a meeting with HM Government !!!

[clan]

Perception of the Jo Public I spoke to is they could not bothered(by that I mean the head Honchos). Since the days of the Silver Swallows there has been minimal AirCorp Involvement as far I can remember. Including the Air Show dedicated to the memories of the poor chaps that died in Waterford.
I certainly do not remember anyone complaining about the Mowags, but as you brought it up was this not one of my points. If people do not know what these men and Women do, for us and for other countries they will complain about money been spent as they do not understand. Educate them, and part of that process is performing to 100k people who pay taxes that can fund new purchases. If Jo Public perceive the Air Corp to be doing a good job(And they do a fantastic job, Re Lorna Siggins book)
Then maybe the Profile increases and public awareness increases and hopfully budgets increase. Not definite, but if they don't try they will never know.
How many people turned up in O Connell street for the UN parade a few years ago, and how many watched it on TV. People are interested, help educate them and make them aware. And Maybe!!!!! we will see Budgets increase.

[Joey d]

Was just wondering about the Silver Swallows, were they part funded by any organisation (other than the DF)? I think boeing give something towards the Red Arrows and if thats the case could the new PC-9 display team get sponsorship which would off set some expenses?

Edit: This doesnt mean that the PC-9s would have to have anything plastered on them, but the sponsorship could be in name

[Silver]

I believe Shell sponsored some of the airshow brochures.
Perhaps they also gave fuel at a good rate (free?) to the Swallows ?

[clan]

I cannot see why the head of Aer Arran, or the ever happy Michael O Leary cannot be approached for sponsorship of a display team, using old Aircraft like a refurbished Fouga, Vampire etc It does not have to be a team, a single display would be pretty good. A partnership with one of these organisations would improve PR.
As long as they understand there would be no advertising on the side of the aircraft.

[matt_k]

Hopefully this new Air Corps team to be unveiled at the family day later this month will once again support PR for the Corps

[matt_k]

An Air Corps officer said in this month's 'Aircraft Illustrated' that there is a very good chance of the Silver Swallows being reformed on the PC-9's and that they could be ready for the Summer of 2005  '>  ...I know that obviously it isn't concrete proof or anything but at least it shows that the interest is there to reform the team.