Author Topic: 5 Year plan  (Read 947 times)

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Offline FMolloy

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5 Year plan
« on: August 30, 2004, 01:42:19 pm »
Here's an interesting post from IMO. I'm posting it here at Silver's request. It's not my work, so I cannot elaborate on it or answer questions about it:


Despite all the spin we are no further forward than we were from when Price Waterhouse gave its recommendations. There has been a complete failure by both the media and more importantly by all political parties to grasp the importance of an air force to a sovereign democratic state.
Why the bruhaha over 6 measly helicopters? Undoubtedly the ACE will end up with 6 plastic helicopters from Eurocopter. What is needed is a 'leak' from the ACE to The Sunday Times to shame the incompetent morons incharge of leaving us defenceless.
An urgent 5 year plan is required with a budget for 100million Euro for purchases. If the Celtic Tiger cannot afford this paltry sum then ask Tony Blair can the Dail be changed to an assembly and the 'Republic' rejoin the UK. This would solve the Unionist concerns while giving the Chuckies a united Ireland.
More importantly it would formally acknowledge what every diplomat knows. That is Bertie et al could admit that British taxpayers provide independent Irelands defence since its 'freedom' as well as the RNLI!!!!!
If anyone studies the PWR it clearly states that renting helicopters for SAR is a complete waste of money while also recommending the purchase of further CASA Persuader to provide an Air Corps based 24/7 top-cover and multi-tasked medium helicopters.
Is no-one aware that Portugals 2 EH-101 SAR/ MR were 65% funded by the EU as they are equipped with FLIR and an advanced maritime search and track radar!!!! Surely to God someone can re-issue the RFP for 4 Medium SAR but stick on a request for MR to facilitate EU requirements for Fishery Protection, Anti-Narcotics, Anti global terrorism.
In relation to the shortlisted helicopters Australia is sticking with Sikorsky. However you will notice that British, French, Spanish, Dutch and Swiss all use the various Eurocopter Cougar. This is because their heliborne troops debus ready to fight. The Blackhawk does not allow this as the cabin is too cramped. Having flown in one with a para-rescue team you couldn't swing a cat! The elite para-rescuers hated it as it had no range, no room and was a 'soft touch' for 7.62 never mind 14.5!!!! They were desperate for the airforce to order another 'Jolly Green Giant',ie the H-92. In fact the H-92 was developed to counter these very criticisms. Spain however does use the S-76 for training its airforce pilots.
The Augusta-Bell 139 is a really great helicopter with the advantage of being a truly new helicopter taking advantage of an excellent diagnostic system which records wear and tear on the complete system. The US Coast Guard have ordered 90 to replace the Sikorsky S-60 Jayhawk due to its better range, better lifting ability and spacious cabin. RAF of Oman has ordered the Augusta Westland Lynx 300 for attack role but ordered the AB-139 for troop assault!!!!!

The 2 submitted by Eurocopter are good private choppers or training machines but the EC-145 is merely a further development of the 1970s MBB/Kawasaki BK-117 which is yet to find a military operator!!!!!
Before I go while everyone knocks the Dauphin, please remember that tha Air Corps wanted 15 !!!!! 10 to replace the Allouette in troop transport and 5 to form an initial Naval Air Service [ source Janes] to operate of 4 P-31!!!!! As the EU paid for 65% of the 5million per aircraft is it not the least we could do to find the 1.5 million Euro for their upgrade, After all 2 of the remaining 3 are fully spec for naval use???
D'oh!

Offline Silver

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« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2004, 06:23:36 am »
Cheers F.Molloy.

I asked FM to post this here as it is the best article I have read re the current AC situation !

It sums up my thoughts on the subject perfectly !!

....especially re -
- the unecessary costs of having a seperate SAR heli service,
- the possiblity of part-EU funded SAR helis and,
- the suggestion of upgrading the remaining naval-equipped Dauphins !

Whoever wrote this article has his/her 'finger on the pulse' !!!

Offline sealion

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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2004, 08:37:20 am »
I believe that elsewhere on IMO this contributor was discredited.

Offline FMolloy

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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2004, 02:30:15 pm »
Discredited would be too strong a word. Some of his comments on Iraq were refuted by a couple of guys who'd served there. The main thrust of his argumants on the DF haven't been disagreed with.
D'oh!

Offline Imshi-Yallah

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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2004, 05:09:19 pm »
Quote (Silver @ 30 Aug. 2004,21:23)
Cheers F.Molloy.

I asked FM to post this here as it is the best article I have read re the current AC situation !

It sums up my thoughts on the subject perfectly !!

....especially re -
- the unecessary costs of having a seperate SAR heli service,
- the possiblity of part-EU funded SAR helis and,
- the suggestion of upgrading the remaining naval-equipped Dauphins !

Whoever wrote this article has his/her 'finger on the pulse' !!!

Funny, I suggested two out of the three on several occasions in the past, its almost like anyone with half a brain cell could write this rant.
‘The hottest place in hell is for those who are neutral’
Dante Alighieri

Offline Silver

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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2004, 04:04:26 am »
*yawn*

Offline sealion

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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2004, 06:02:21 am »
Quote (FMolloy @ 01 Sep. 2004,14:30)
Discredited would be too strong a word. Some of his comments on Iraq were refuted by a couple of guys who'd served there. The main thrust of his argumants on the DF haven't been disagreed with.

In fairness,for someone who claimed to be a defence analyst,his knowledge of basic roles and vehicles was exposed as quite poor, and He was torn to shreads in the naval section.

Nobody will argue that the DF needs a major injection of spending. You dont need to be a defence analyst to know that.

To me he seemed to have been reading other peoples opinions over the last number of months,put them all together in one post,and tried to pass them off as his own.

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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2004, 02:22:40 am »
Look, Mr F Molloy, I apreciate that you have a background in defence interests and so do all the other 'well informed' people who post on these sites, but I'm sick of seeing bullsh1t references to aircraft and manufacturers that have nothing to do with tenders and competitions involving the Air Corps. NO NH90. NO UH1Y. NO COUGAR. NO EH101. NO RUSSIAN AIRCRAFT. Stop talking about them. Talk about the aircraft that tendered. It's not the fault of the govt or the Air Corps that the other companies didn't tender, but because they didn't tender they cannot be considered. They may not have tendered because they consider Ireland a crappy commercial interest and have more reliable orders on the cards. I would agree with this asessment. But what the hell would I know, having been involved with this sh1t for the last 4 years?!

Offline FMolloy

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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2004, 03:38:10 pm »
Read the first part of my post again, concentrating on the bit in bold italics:

Quote
Here's an interesting post from IMO. I'm posting it here at Silver's request. It's not my work, so I cannot elaborate on it or answer questions about it:
D'oh!

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« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2004, 08:20:58 pm »
Oops... sorry mate! That'll learn me.

Offline sealion

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« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2004, 08:33:34 pm »
Yeah..blame silver instead... ':p'

Offline Silver

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« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2004, 12:06:06 am »
Thanks sealion ! '<img'>

Seriously though, I still stand over my earlier post. The thoughts and ideas in the original message are excellent.

Read it carefully:

- renting helis for SAR is a waste of money (i.e. get AC helis instead!)

- Porteguese SAR helis 65% EU funded (we can do same!)

- Cougar (for example) would allow troop to debus in 'fighting mode' : Blackhawk too cramped to allow this (so why buy BHawk ??!)

- The EU have already 65% funded the Dauphins : we should retain 2 x Naval variants and upgrade them (cheaper than buying new helis. Would give future NS transport ship greater flexibility to move troops, equipment, casevac, etc. !)



These points are all excellent and complete common sense, whatever this poster may have said re Army or NS equipment, I totally agree with these valid points re the AC !

Silver.





Offline sealion

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« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2004, 08:15:00 am »
I dont know if this is relevant or not,but Naval Ops is History.
Eithnes helideck has been modified to take Containers(TEU) with appropriate anchorage points on the deck. The non slip surface required for the deck,is also no longer in use,as the cost was excessive.
In theory she can still land a heli..but not in practice,except perhaps in an emergency.

And Silver,I dont think we need some wannabe spoofer to tell us that Renting aircraft for SAR is a waste of money. As for the point about the blackhawk,have you jumped out of a Puma/Cougar recently? Its a long drop...

Offline FMolloy

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« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2004, 08:46:53 am »
No worries Scorpy, easy enough mistake to make.
D'oh!

Offline clan

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« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2004, 10:23:54 am »
Have I not read else where, IMO maybe that the anchorage points will be removed shortly and Eithne will be made back into a HPV.
Who mentioned Jets