SIAI Marchetti SF.260

[Joey d]

On page 106 of Wings over Ireland, it says E denotes Eire!

[Lurk]

The following is an extract from the aermacchi register.
Only the Marchettis in Air Corps use appear to have the we designation.

289/24-01 SF.260WE 222 (EI)  
290/24-02 SF.260WE 223 (EI) 13 Dec 1990 accident, w/o
291/24-03 SF.260WE 224 (EI) 24 Jan 1978 accident, w/o
292/24-04 SF.260WE 225 (EI)  
293/24-05 SF.260WE 226 (EI)    
294/24-06 SF.260WE 227 (EI)  
295/24-07 SF.260WE 228 (EI) 23 Aug 1993 accident, w/o
296/24-08 SF.260WE 229 (EI)  
297/24-09 SF.260WE 230 (EI)  
299/24-10 SF.260WE 231 (EI)

The link to the full register is http://home.planet.nl/~hendriksf260/sf260pro3.html

Lurk

[Snapper]

The Air Corps also operated SF.260W 235 (c/n 373/24-11).
It was delivered in 1978 to replace 224 which had been w/o. 235 was subsequently w/o in 1982.

 Snapper '>

[Fouga]

and dont forget the American "warriors" that were painted white.

[hendriksf260]

anyone ever seen an instructional airframe of a SF.260 fuselage only, at the Apprentice Training School or seen pictures of it. Serial was "233".

It was a former Zaire Air Force SF.260, and it was said that SIAI Marchetti delivered it around 1977-78 to be used for ground instruction ?? Sold for scrap in 1987 ?

SF.260WE = Ireland
SF.260WL = Libya
SF.260WT = Tunisia

hendrik

[GoneToTheCanner]

hello all
When I served there, working on them,I was specifically told by my F/sgt that "only pilots refer to them as Warriors! Techies don't!!" So I didn't and neither did anyone else.They were and still are,referred to as "Marchettis" by the techies or by their registration number.As for the civil servants, I do not mean to malign all civil servants, the vast majority of whom do a fine job.The FACTS are that civil servants specifically control the disposal of surplus military stores, not the Military.They will not,ever allow an Irish armed aircraft to be sold to the civil market.Any aircraft that does leave the Air Corps hands' will be demilitarised and rendered unflyable.They ordered the chopping of Chipmunk spars on aircraft being given to Museums;they stopped the sale of a Fouga to the Austrian Air Force's Museum, even though the aircraft was being sold for a pound.They ordered the destruction of surplus flight clothing by axe and fire. Need I go on? Incidentally, the white Marchettis were D models and much liked by all who flew and worked on them.231 was the replacement for 224.235 was the one in which E.Barry was killed.223 went to a Shannon-side establishment for an overhaul, once upon a time, and spent a year on the ground after it came back, to be reoverhauled because they had made such a bags of it.The Zairean airframe was but a totally-stripped shell and we were not permitted, as apprentices,to touch it,as was the case with the Fouga, 3-KE.I had about 24 flights in them and enjoyed every one, flying with such good pilots as Fry,Barry,Martin,Duffy and many more.They should be retained as primary trainers and certainly one for the Museum.In the UK, they can be operated on a Permit to Fly.
regards
GttC.

[Silver]

Interesting stuff GTC !

Hadn't heard about the Fouga Austrian incident before.
What is their (civil servants) problem ?

It really is time for a change of policy in the DoD !!!
If all sorts of military equipment can be bought/sold in the UK and elsewhere, the same should be allowed here !

Why was the Fouga being SOLD to Austria - wouldn't it make more sense to swop it for something for the AC museum collection (as is the policy with most aviation museums) ?!

[Frank]

Hi Guys,

GTC is right, you can't even buy a surplus Irish Army jeep / truck in Ireland.  I think you'd have buy it in Northern Ireland / England and change the chassis, therefore changing the chassis number, before re-importing it.


Regards,

Frank.

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi all
The fouga was to be sold for a nominal sum so in reality,it was a gift.The crew who were to deliver the aircraftwere stopped as they boarded their own aircraft to depart.The Austrians had nothing to hand to offer, there and then, as an equivalent swap so the deal was stalled and finally scrapped.
The fouga was one of those originally sourced from the Austrians. The civil servants are bound by rigid guidelines and woe betide them if they stray outside them.
regards
S

[Tony Kearns]

Some very interesting postings.I have never heard the SF260's being referred to anything other than Marchettis (pronounced Marketties). The time relates from the delivery to the present I was present for all the deliveries.The term Warrior as far as I can tell was only used by us civies! Regarding the sale or donation of surplus aircraft, I must confess that I do not know what the criteria is/was. A Hawker Hector was, for many years stored in Tipperary. A Lysander was on the forecourt of a garage in Carlow in the fifties. Five Spitfire Tr9's were sold to private buyers in the UK. Two Vampires were sold to a buyer from the USA, one (185) went to a museum in France and collected by a French Air Force Transall at Baldonnel.Three Provosts went to the UK.
All aircraft mentioned were capable of carrying armaments. I understand that a Fouga Magister will be going to Austria and will be one of their former aircraft used by their aerobatic team. Frank there is a Morris Quad in the Transport Museum in Howth, Dublin and there may also be a Panhard there also. Many BSA M20 and M21 motorcycles were sold off after the emergency and used by civilians. Sorry for adding to the confusion but that's my tuppence worth.
Tony K

[Silver]

You are correct in what you say TK.
There is also a Vampire, Provost and another AC aircraft in the museum collection in Dromod village, Co Leitrim.

I believe that museums can obtain ex-military aircraft OR foreign buyers.

However, there was a change of policy in the 60's or 70's regarding selling to private buyers in Ireland due to the troubles in the North.
e.g. the govt were afraid an Army jeep would fall into the hands of undesirables.

Although, ex-Garda vehicles were sold to the public throughout this period (and still are), which, to my mind would be more likely to be used by said 'undesirables' than an ex-Army vehicle !

Now that the Northern situation has changed (and we also now have a military vehicle collectors club in Ireland) I believe it is time for the DoD to change it's policy and sell ex-military equipment to anybody willing to pay for it.



BTW, I recall reading an article in the papers about six months ago, that the DoD was actually considering changing it's policy.
Anybody else recall the article ?

[sealion]

Its always sad to see former DF Vehicles rotting away at the back of Base workshops around the country. Some of the old AFVs were used as targets,ACMAT trucks were scavenged for parts before being scrapped,even though many mountain rescue groups were eager to use their 4x4 capability.

Apart from the hobbyists wishing to get their hands on former DF vehicles of all shapes and sizes,surely a vehicle is going to sell for more as a complete working example rather than as a few bits of metal?

Plus you have the advantage of all these vehicles available in a doomsday situation?

[pilatus]

but back to the original question what is the current status of the sf260s?

[Frank]

Hi Guys,

As far as I know the Marchetti's are still active, although probably not as much now due to the arrival of the PC9-M's.

The PC-9's are still not 100% up to specification, some of the aircraft are awaiting the installation of the full version of software and I think also some aircraft are not fitted for weapons, and as a result the Marchetti's are being kept on to provide an armed capability.

As for the Warrior name, the aircraft were called / sold / marketed as Warriors by the manufacturer but are simply referred to as Marchetti's by Air Corps personnel, something similar to the situation with the F-16, the official name is Fighting Falcon but the pilots refer to it as the Viper.


Regards,

Frank.

[Bailer]

Smith Changed the Rules before he left.

There's now an Army Surplus Vehicle Auction on the Naas Rd. I know Clubs who've picked up Cheap LDV vans with little mileage for minibusses. I also know an offroad driving instructor who picked up an ACMAT for a few hundred Euro.

Planes should be the same, it was more cost effective to demilitarise a vehicle and do it up than to have it destroyed. and they're making a profit!

But with planes its different, I assume the problem was the IRA. If they got a Fouga or marchetti, I'm sure they could get theit hands on a Few Snebs and they definately have a few GPMG's lying around.

I wonder how the IAC would explain a Brit Heli shot down over the north or an RUC station blown up by a former IAC aircraft??