EU 'battle groups' -

[Silver]

I read recently that the Minister of Defence is currently considering whether Ireland should join the new EU 'battle groups'.

Ireland would be grouped with Finland and Sweden according to the article.

The same article also quoted the Chief of Staff as saying that the Defence Forces want to be part of these groups, but that we currently do not have the transport planes, helicopters or ships to support such a move (each country must fund and provide its own equipment for these groups).
(Source: Irish Independent)


Is the purchase of the Utility Helis the start of a move to join such a 'battle group' ?

What other aircraft would be required ?

[Dublin Spotter]

I taught that the battle groups were to be made up of companies form each of the particapiting countries, for example, Ireland would provide a logistics comapny to support the bettle group they have joined (previously rumoured to be with Sweden & Finland, However they have already started to cross train).

So in a nutshell, if Ireland were to join any of the battlegroups, I would see the heavy equipment required such as transport aircraft and navel vessels provided by other member states.

[Silver]

A couple of transport aircraft would definetly be required.

2 x CASA 235 transport planes for example .

[clan]

It says on the Goverments White paper, that the Battle Groups have to be Self Deployable and self Sustainable.
So I presume this means, transport Aircraft to lift, Mowags, Panhards. or transport aircraft to lift troops while the Equipment goes by sea.
Either way they need, new/second hand equipment.
How many troops can a C130 carry with full gear.

[Imshi-Yallah]

Realistically 80 if they are going to walk off ready to fight, if they want to jump off less.

[matt_k]

It aint gonna happen is it...

[clan]

You would think if we sign up, which I am sure we will. It should mean new transport aircraft and Aux type ship. But knowing Irish Politicians you can never be sure.
I presume if we do look at a second hand C130's, and we have to be able to deploy 500 troops quickly. 2 would be a realistic number to have at our disposal shipping 160 in one go.
I am sure we could always lease them! Or could we.

[futurepilot]

Chances are that if we didn`t use other countries aircraft, we`d lease Antonovs as we did for the Liberia mission.

[IAS]

Would leasing be a realistic option, if these "battle groups" are going into a "hot" situation will civvy aircraft be allowed in or would they even want to be (insurance etc.).

Is this not the reason why Austria just bought 3 ex-RAF C-130Ks? Does anyone know how much the Austria paid for the 3, I seem to remember reading €30 million in total including refurbishment?

IAS

[clan]

IAS, You are right 10m each, bought off Marshalls of Cambridge.
I would not like to see the quote for the Antonovs, if they had to land in a hostile enviroment. Cheaper to buy Aer Lingus

[Silver]

€20 million for 2 x refurbished C130's sounds like a great deal, considering that 1 x CASA 235 would cost about the same - with much less lift capacity !

According to todays Indo, the Minister for Defence will officially announce (on Monday), to his EU counterparts, that Ireland has agreed to join the new 'battle groups'.  

These groups are to be fully operational by 2007.



Ok Willie, start organising your shopping list !

lets see - 2 x C130's would be a good start   '>

[clan]

Seeing that there is no increase in spending on defence for next year. It looks like they will have to borrow a ferry and fly the troops Ryanair.

[Silver]

But what about the money from the sale of barracks - c.€33 million according to todays Indo.
All this is supposed to be re-invested in the Defence Forces.

This is not included in the budget estimates.

[FiannaFail]

I would agree with  Silver.  We are going to join up with some form of European Defence Pact- ERF or Battlegroups - More helis and more transport aircraft will be required.  Considering that the EU were major funders of the CASAs for fishery protection, surely the EU will fund us for providing appropriate aircraft for EU military duties?  We will be one of the guardians of the western flank when the European Defence Policies is ironed out.

At least 3 C-130s for starters!

FiannaFail '>

[Flyboy]

God help Europe's Western Flank !!!