AB139 Capabilities.

[Imshi-Yallah]

Anyone who's ever worn CEMO and worn it in a helicopter will tell you that you will not fit a section with full kit into the AB139, Manufacturers estimates seem to be based on cold calculations rather than actually trying to cram in 8 warlike blokies who are not perfectly moulded to fit in.

The AB139 is simply a direct replacement of the AIII and Dauphin as a limited training tool, even if it was bought in sufficient number (8-12) it would not fulfill the armies troop transport requirements even on a one for one basis.

This is my supposition on the subject and I hope Im proved wrong.

[Silver]

I too would view the AB139's as a Dauphin replacement,
the EC-135's as the Gazelle replacement............but I believe we will continue see the Alouettes in our skies for some time to come !

If the medium-lift helis ever arrive - then we will finally have a 'true' troop transport capability.

[FiannaFail]

Imshi,
I think we've got to start somewhere.  When we got our first three AIII, did we think we would ever get more?

I view this as a great starting point, but just a starting point.  When we enroll in whatever military alliance we decide in there will be a great investment in required equipment!!  And we may even get EU grants for them!
Take care,
FiannaFail :'>

[Imshi-Yallah]

Sigh....the medication had to run out eventually.

[sealion]

Imshi,Have you flown in an AB139 recently?
How else would you know if it could fit a CEMO equipped section or not?

In any case it is only required to seat 8 CEFO (Not CEMO)equipped troops,it can seat 10 in utility configuration,according to the manufacturers brochures.
You cant fit a section of CEMO equipped troops in the back of a Mowag either(or any other APC for that matter). They throw their packs on top of the wagon,on the outside.
The AB139 allows them to squish them in the internal storage area ,or sling them in a cargo net underneath.

I am sure people more qualified than you have looked into this already.

Fact is,as FF said,its a starting point. Our troops going overseas will now know how to operate as a section from Helis,which was not the case up to now.

[IAS]

I think we all have to agree with Sealion on this, it's a start and potentially a very good one!

IAS

[FMolloy]

The requirement listed in the tender was 8 men in light order weighing 115kg each.

[clan]

There is a great photo of a RAF Puma delivering the new Land Rover Discovery to a customer in Northern Ireland. The side doors are open and it certainly looks like you could fit a few bodies in there. How about 2 second hand ones to go with the 4 AB139's that would give a good lift capacity

[Silver]

I don't think that 2 secondhand Discovery's would have much lift capacity !  '>



.........sorry clan, couldn't resist it !

[John K]

You're right, Clan, Pumas are the way to go!
You were a bit terse back there, Sealion, with your reply about people more qualified than Imshi have looked into it, are you refering to the senior Air Corps staff.......?
Why did the requirement stipulate 8 troops? have the Irish army downsized by making 2 men redundant from a section? Or do they figure on leaving the LMG group behind and only sending in the riflemen?
You could get 20 in aPuma!!

[Imshi-Yallah]

Quote (sealion @ 04 Dec. 2004,18:52)

Imshi,Have you flown in an AB139 recently? How else would you know if it could fit a CEMO equipped section or not? In any case it is only required to seat 8 CEFO (Not CEMO)equipped troops,it can seat 10 in utility configuration,according to the manufacturers brochures. You cant fit a section of CEMO equipped troops in the back of a Mowag either(or any other APC for that matter). They throw their packs on top of the wagon,on the outside. The AB139 allows them to squish them in the internal storage area ,or sling them in a cargo net underneath. I am sure people more qualified than you have looked into this already. Fact is,as FF said,its a starting point. Our troops going overseas will now know how to operate as a section from Helis,which was not the case up to now.

Why bother buying helicopters to train troops in a way they'll never deploy, we arent going to send air assault.
Sealion, I know what its like to operate in CEMO and in helicopters, looking at the AB139 I can use my amazing abilities of cogniscence to see that 8 people wont fit.

It seems to me that the ABA139 is another nail in the coffin of the IAC as a military entity.

[FMolloy]

The NATO standard section is 8, this is also now standard for DF pso formations.

And the DF section is made up of 9 troops, not 10.

[FMolloy]

Quote (Imshi-Yallah @ 07 Dec. 2004,04:29)

Why bother buying helicopters to train troops in a way they'll never deploy, we arent going to send air assault. Sealion, I know what its like to operate in CEMO and in helicopters, looking at the AB139 I can use my amazing abilities of cogniscence to see that 8 people wont fit. It seems to me that the ABA139 is another nail in the coffin of the IAC as a military entity.

Why don't we see how they perform before we condem them as useless?

And is the DF any worse off than it was before the AB-139 was chosen?

[sealion]

Quote (John K @ 07 Dec. 2004,13:18)

You're right, Clan, Pumas are the way to go! You were a bit terse back there, Sealion, with your reply about people more qualified than Imshi have looked into it, are you refering to the senior Air Corps staff.......? Why did the requirement stipulate 8 troops? have the Irish army downsized by making 2 men redundant from a section? Or do they figure on leaving the LMG group behind and only sending in the riflemen? You could get 20 in aPuma!!

Showing your age there John. Even the FCA ditched the 10 man section back in 1990.

As Finer Failure says,we can hope that like the allouettes of the 60s,we start off with a small quantity and grow from there.

Some consider the AB139 to be the natural successor to the Bell 208,or Huey...

In any case,the contracts have yet to be signed. Sick horseky could decide to sue  because they didnt get their way, or youra copter could whine cos they expected to unload the rest of their scrap metal/composite on us.
Biffo could decide that he needs the cash for another after hours session.

I say lets wait and see..then complain.

[clan]

At the end of the day they are six Brand new Helicopters, with the possibility of another 2. They are the latest spec, and 4 of them are military heli's. Which when added to the current fleet even if it is only for a few months or years a great addition to the A111's and the Dauphins. No matter what happens those Aircraft we now have up to date modern ,machiney to replace which are a great addition.
As long as they are painted green.