From PC-9M's to?

[Silver]

Ok, here is the scenario..........

It's 2009 and the world security situation has dictated that the Department of Defence purchase "aircraft for the defence of Irish airspace to which Irish Air Corps pilots, trained on our Pilatus PC-9M's, can transition to without undue delay"

i.e. what would be the logical 'next step' in the event of another 'emergency' type situation ?
 

(N.B. Lets have a logical discussion here please, without undue heckling !)

I see no circumstances in the next 10-15 years that would warrant such a decision.  No potential threats to Ireland requiring the operation of combat aircraft and no need on international operations given the number of EU/NATO nations able to provide such support.

Existing requirements are for an additional 4+ AB-139's and and airlifter such as the C-295 or C-130J-30. In 2009 it will be time to consider a replacement for the CN-235MPA's.

That said, your question requires further definition.  Is the requirement to strictly provide Air Defence of Ireland or a multi-role capiblity including what?  Beyond Visual Range air-to-air engagement?  Day/night precision guided munitions delivery?  Interoperability with EU/NATO, including AWACS data link?  Overseas self-deployability?  Aerial refuelling capable?  Etc.

All that said, Gripen or Eurofighter are probably the best options, having hazarded a number of guesses as to what the requirements could be.

Sorry, addendum to my last input.  My mouse got ahead of my brain.

There can be no transition from PC-9's to a modern high performace combat aircraft "without undue delay."  Even a veteran IAC PC-9 pilot with experience as an ab initio IP who occasionally shoots unguided rockets and .50 machine guns would face years of training to be even moderately effective in a modern fast jet.  Not to mention developing the advanced skills and mindset that can only come with experience, preferably up to and including combined training with other EU/NATO air forces and participation in activities such as the NATO Tactical Leadership Program, Maple Flag, etc.  The first step would be a year on Hawks at NATO Flying Training in Canada just to learn the basics, followed by another year of Operational Conversion and operational experience on type with another air force.

About the only platform in which Irish PC-9 pilots could become effective quickly - in perhaps a year - is the L-159, an excellent modern day/night attack jet capable of delivering PGM's, but with little credible air-to-air capability; no radar and no BVR.

[Buran]

If there was a clear and present danger to the state i would imagine that the government would enter into an agreement with the UK/US/EU defence force (if one exists), whichever is more politically suitable at the time, to provide air cover, with the possibility of foreign aircraft stationed here. Meanwhile the air corps will start to ramp up (over some time as indicated with old redeye) to eventually providing supporting air cover, much as the hawks support the tornados and eurofighter in the uk. The hawk, or the successor of the time (Mako?), would be the extent of our advanced aircraft capability.
(just my opinion, no flaming please)

[Turkey]

Err, the L-159 has Radar, and BVR capablity, it can operate the AIM-9 which is seriously credible air-to-air capablity, apart from that it is seriously under preforming expecations and is not much faster then the PC-9, 'don't think so.
A much more sensible choice would appear to be the Lockheed Martin/KIA F/A/T-50 which is one of the few moderal advanced trainer/light fighter which is on time and appears to be doing 'exactly what it says on the tin'
I would also consider the Gripen a contender...
But the aircrafts are not the only problem, ground crew is a very important and often overlooked issue, like modern hangers that do not face the wrong way!! and I think that the thought that thought that our pilots are going to require years of training is inaccurate, or is there some problem unique to young Irish men and women that I am not aware of?
But the culture,or structure that such a defence provision requires needs some time to put in place, which is why it should be happening now,...or perhaps, with the purchase of the PC-9's it already is in motion.

[Fouga]

Quote (oldredeye @ 15 Feb. 2005,03:37)

I see no circumstances in the next 10-15 years that would warrant such a decision.

only a few years ago the cold war ended......

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi all
turkey,I believe it takes most modern airforces about two years to pass a candidate from abinitio to fast-jet qualified and even then,the candidate is only at the bottom of the fast-jet food-chain.Typically, the RAF don't consider a guy experienced until he has at least one "tour" under his belt. That includes foreign duty deployments,NATO exercises,etc.
If the Air Corps got Gripens or whatever in the morning, it would still takes years for them to become fully integrated and generate institutional experience for pilots, engineers,ATC and everyone else involved in keeping them aloft.As an aside, the PC-9s are nice enough, but what is new with them, apart from G-suits and up-to-date ejection seats? The Don is already familiar with the PT-6, EFIS,aluminium and composite airframes,etc. They look good but are not necessarily a great leap forward in purely combat terms.A more pressing problem for the Air Corps right now is the need to replace the helicopters and plan properly for the next transport-category aircraft.
regards
Stovepipe

[Turkey]

StovepipeMy understanding is that the RAF takes about 1 year to make an FJ driver out of a trained pilot, but, as you imply, the flying equivalent of a worm is probally a suitable discription.
Operating FJ's is going to be a multi aspected task, even for the limited amount that this country could hopfully see, indeed the unit costs would probally be less as the numbers went up.
I never said it would be easy or cheap, but it's cheaper then the religiously anti-jet fanatics would have us belive.
But it can only be done at or near the end of a comprehensive makeover of the the IAC and other parts of the DF.
In the meantime the aquiring, and operating, of a reasonable helicopter fleet is probally more important, not to mention the provision of a transport fleet as you have rightly pointed out.

[Fouga]

what is the PT-6?

[Silver]

PT-6 = PC-9M engine.

[Fouga]

oh right.

[Frank]

The PT-6 is also the engine on the Beech King Air and a version of it will also power the new AB139 heli's.


Regards,

Frank.

[Guinness]

Gripens are not an option as they are not equipped with the LINK-16 system (yet??)
This will prevend the Dail to chose for this plane, although it is the best fighter on the face of the earth at the moment.

Guinness