Bring Avro Cadet 'C7' back to Baldonnel campaign!

[Silver]

We should bear in mind that regardless of issues about where to keep it, who will maintain it, etc etc .......this is the oldest Irish military aircraft in existence and we may not have another chance to purchase it !

(N.B. As I stated before, we could sell one of the Marchettis to fund the C7 purchase).

[Buran]

Im not saying im against the purchase of this aircraft, but in fairness, there will always be AN oldest Irish Aer Corps aircraft at any point in time.
This one is only special because its the oldest right now.
If it was the Big Fella, that would be another thing altogether, or if this aircraft had done some particular achievement of note. But to my knowlegde, its just an old plane.
Ok the fact that it is still airworthy, and is an ex aer corps plane, makes it part of a very exclusive group, and maybe thats the reason to buy it.
But if there was a fund available, and we could choose this, or an airworthy hurricane, for example, id go for the hurricane any day.

Also, another point that i think needs to be made. The spitfire in duxford. Would i rather see it in duxford or with the aer corps? To be honest, given the uncertainty that surrounds the air corps museum, id prefer it to stay in duxford, where its future is much more secure.

[Silver]

Quote (Buran @ 16 Mar. 2005,04:21)

Im not saying im against the purchase of this aircraft, but in fairness, there will always be AN oldest Irish Aer Corps aircraft at any point in time. This one is only special because its the oldest right now.

Buran,

You're missing the point !

This is THE oldest AC plane in the world.  
There is no (and there never will be!) an older AC plane that this one !!!

[202]

The (admirable) interest in this item of heritage is in contrast with other postings on this forum which tend to run down those interested in such matters in the Irish environment (eg. references to tree huggers). Maybe we now have a new genre known as ' plane huggers'.

[Silver]

I have an interest in many aspects of our heritage, but particularly in our transport heritage, which has been neglected by the State  (e.g. lack of dedicated aircraft museum, or transport museum).

Let us hope that with the recent opening of the Michael Collins museum wing in Cork, that the DoD has started to show a real interest in preserving our military heritage - military transport included !!

[Tony Kearns]

Interesting point 202. I began to lose interest in this forum some time ago when there seemed to be a certain amount of abuse against any one interested in our heritage and environment.The words tree huggers and also if I recall crusties whatever they are, seemed to be used quite a lot. Thankfully it seems to have abated.
Tony K

[sealion]

However,some who seek to preserve heritage often do so at the expense of modernisation.
If the Military authorities were serious about preserving military heritage,we would still be stuck with Beggars Bush,Griffith barracks,Collins,Clancy in Dublin,
and every other relic of British Occupation. Preservation orders would have been placed on them to prevent any modernisation. I recently saw a complaint that Collins Barracks In Cork had replaced the old timber windows with PVC in the main buildings,ruining the look of the longest continously occupied barracks in europe.

True,But soldiers in the 1800s rarely lived to see 40....I'll take no Pneumonia over heritage any day.

The same could happen here. The Air Corps are stuck with preserving every antique aircraft in its inventory,leaving a well stocked museum,but a non existant air arm.

Lets leave the preservation to the People at places like Duxford? They are better at it,and the public have better access to see the exhibits,which in turn funds the preservation process.

[Silver]

So you are suggesting that we should give away/sell all our old aircraft ?

That the Air Corps are not capable of storing/maintaining a few vintage aircraft ?

Utter rubbish !!


Time to get real !
The money involved with restoring and maintaining vintage aircraft is a pittance when compared to the millions involved in purchasing new planes and helis.

Lets face it, if it wasn't for the dedication of many Air Corps personnel over the years, we would have NO vintage AC aircraft to speak of. These people worked in their own time - and with money raised by themselves - to preserve the few aircraft that (luckily!) somehow survived !    


What is your problem ?

The Air Corps ARE getting new aircraft : PC-9's, EC-135's, AB139's.........and keeping a few old aircraft in a hangar will make NO difference to the purchasing or otherwise of new aircraft !!!


(N.B. - While I believe we can get the balance right between preservation of buildings and moden facailities - this thread is about preserving military aircraft - not buildings. )

[sealion]

Silver,Your hostility on this issue to those who oppose you is unnecessary,but for you,typical.

Take off the blinkers,avoid the personal abuse,and just listen to other peoples viewpoints for a change.

I dont know of any other air arm that keeps vintage aircraft preserved in anything other than gate guardian condition.
The Air Corps job is as an arm of the defence forces to defend the state. Nowhere in the DF roles does it say "preserve the nations heritage"or "act as curator to the air corps museum".

I have no problem.

Quote

The money involved with restoring and maintaining vintage aircraft is a pittance when compared to the millions involved in purchasing new planes and helis

Odd then that Duxford have to charge an entry fee....and all their preservation people are volunteers.

[RMR]

Before this developed into a row,it was a good idea of silvers to get people to show their interest in having this aircraft back in Ireland.Personally,i think id rather see this aircraft maintained and even flown by an Irish crew (civvie or military)no dis-respect to the duxford boys,after all the lads in gormonston did a great job in restoring chipmunk 164.Im no expert on the financial state of the country but its not a great deal of money to purchase this aircraft and as some one mentioned above if the interest of a civilian company was obtained,even better.Im sure the running costs,if it were to be flown in 1 or 2 flypasts a year,would'nt be too great either.Anyway, the boys in the D.O.D can take it out of the budget they have for those 10  f-18's '>  '>

[RMR]

Correction to above:  chipmunk 168

[Silver]

Quote (sealion @ 18 Mar. 2005,20:40)

Quote Silver,Your hostility on this issue to those who oppose you is unnecessary,but for you,typical . Don't think so - I'm very open to discussions ! Quote Take off the blinkers,avoid the personal abuse,and just listen to other peoples viewpoints for a change . I do not have 'blinkers'. Sorry if I "abused" you, but I'm kinda interested in this topic. I'm listening, but only reading negativity from you. One would think we were taking millions from the Defence budget. Quote I dont know of any other air arm that keeps vintage aircraft preserved in anything other than gate guardian condition. The RNZAF have a museum on their Ohakea base - I visited it last year. The RNZAF also operate an airworthy Tiger Moth. (I'm sure I could find lots more such examples if I had the time to look - which I don't right now!)   Quote The Air Corps job is as an arm of the defence forces to defend the state. Nowhere in the DF roles does it say "preserve the nations heritage"or "act as curator to the air corps museum". Yes, the AC's role is defence. But there is nothing that says they cannot have a museum collection either. If it were not for some AC folks, we would have no vintage aircraft ! Quote Odd then that Duxford have to charge an entry fee....and all their preservation people are volunteers . Your point is ? Whats wrong with charging an entry fee '> What is wrong with volunteers '> I'm talking about the cost of purchasing old aircraft (C7 for example) as being a 'pittance' compared to new aircraft purchases.

[Fouga23]

Quote (sealion @ 18 Mar. 2005,20:40)

I dont know of any other air arm that keeps vintage aircraft preserved in anything other than gate guardian condition.

The Dutch AF (KLu) has a historical flight. They have 1 Auster, 5 Piper Cubs, 1 Beaver, 1 Fokker F-27, 1 Ryan STM, 1 Stinson, 1 Beech T-7,  6 Harvard AT-16, 4 Fokker S-11, 1 Tiger Moth and 1 Spitfire MK IX. All in flying condition.

[RMR]

The Israeli air force has a huge collection of vintage aircraft including p-51's,spitfires,meteors,vampires and their version of the bf109,some of which are flying,some on static display.The swiss still have a few hunters flying and vampires.(open to correction on the vamp) Thats just off the top of my head!!

[Frank]

Don't forget the RAF Battle of Britain Memorial Flight, the Royal Navy Historical Flight and I think the British Army have a Historical Flight as well.