Bring Avro Cadet 'C7' back to Baldonnel campaign!

[sealion]

Right then,off ye go,watch the DoD throw all the budget at restoring old aircraft,while the modern Air Corps becomes a non entity. Because you know they wont do things by halfs.

RNZAF is hardly a good example,as their useful assets are being withdrawn.

Just like my input to this discussion. I want a modern air corps. Not a Historical flight.
I want to read about the Air Corps in Air Force Monthly,not Flypast.

[Buran]

Quote

Buran, You're missing the point ! This is THE oldest AC plane in the world.   There is no (and there never will be!) an older AC plane that this one !!!

With respect, i think you missed my point.
There is a difference between age and historical significance.

I agree with others on this thread, that sometimes people put down others in order to further their own point. This only serves to p**s people off so they wander off to other boards. The idea of a discussion board is to promote discussion on the topic. Just because someone disagrees with you doesnt mean that they are an idiot. Sometimes negativity needs to be brought to a discussion, even if only see how the original argument stands up. We cant persue every idea with enthusiasm.

[Silver]

Quote (Buran @ 21 Mar. 2005,05:31)

Quote Buran, You're missing the point ! This is THE oldest AC plane in the world.   There is no (and there never will be!) an older AC plane that this one !!! With respect, i think you missed my point. There is a difference between age and historical significance. I agree with others on this thread, that sometimes people put down others in order to further their own point. This only serves to p**s people off so they wander off to other boards. The idea of a discussion board is to promote discussion on the topic. Just because someone disagrees with you doesnt mean that they are an idiot. Sometimes negativity needs to be brought to a discussion, even if only see how the original argument stands up. We cant persue every idea with enthusiasm.

The fact of the matter is that C7 is the oldest Air Corps plane - end of story. There can never be an 'older' AC plane that it - bar a replica is built at some stage - and even so, a replica would have no historical value.

I apologise if I got a little "excited" at times during this discussion. I did not intend to offend, or put anybody down. All comments are always welcome on this board - even if I sometimes disagree with them. :'>

I just believe that people are being a bit ott when they suggest that a few old aircraft are going to destroy the AC budget.
The AC is currently being re-equipped and I believe will continue to be so.
A museum collection would merely be a positive way to publicise  the Corps to the public, and develop the esprit de corps of the AC.

I recall reading that the AC has/had plans to open the museum to the public and to include a viewing platform for people to observe AC aircraft movements ...............just think how that would bolster interest in the AC '>

[pym]

What this arguement comes down to is whether the money is better spent on some useful modern equipment or a piece of air corps heritage.

It's hard, if not impossible to put a price on heritage, but being a fairly practical person (i think) I dont see any compelling reason to have the Acro C7 sitting in Baldonnel. The only reason there is: in the interests of completeness, it would be nice.

Silver, your heart is obviously in the right place but when it comes to "promotion" of the Air Corps, I cant see what the point is. Promote it to whom? If the aircraft in question was purchased, in all likelyhood you'd have a weeks worth of phone calls into Joe Duffy, all of the same tune "blah traffic, blah hospitals, blah my foot hurts", not to mention those oh so big political parties complaining.... although at least the Avro isnt Nato standard.

I digress..... The point is that the Air Corps have thousands of applicants each year, they dont need any promotion whatsoever, what they need is modern equipment for modern military roles. The Avro doesnt help this cause.

By the same token anyone who suggests the Air Corps will become an historical flight if this aircraft is purchased is being alarmist and idiotic.

It'd be nice to have it, but would the money not be better spent on getting a few more people in the Army issued with their proper kit?

Anyway....

[FMolloy]

Quote (Silver @ 21 Mar. 2005,10:27)

The fact of the matter is that C7 is the oldest Air Corps plane - end of story. There can never be an 'older' AC plane...

If/when the C7 ceases to exist, it would no longer be the oldest aircraft & the next oldest one assumes the mantle.

Which brings be to my second point. Assuming they buy the C7, would keeping it flying be worth the risk? As I see it, there's a financial risk & a human risk. The human risk would be that to the plane's pilot, historical flights have lost aircraft before & the C7 does not have anywhere near the survivability of a modern aircraft. Would flying the C7 be worth the potential cost of a pilot's life? The financial risk is putting all that money into an aircraft that could crash & reduce the investment to matchwood.

I would support the purchase of the C7, provided additonal funds were made available for the purchase & it was permanently grounded in a museum. I think Sealion makes a very valid point about the AC concentrating it's limited resources on it's future.

[Buran]

Promotion of the air corps isnt just for the sole purpose of getting recruits interested. It also needs to raise the profile so people take an interest in the defence forces, see the good work that they do, recognise the need for resources to be given to them, and then say this to the politicians on the doorsteps. Otherwise, the air corps wont get any increase in funding.

I think this could well be serviced by an air corps museum/historical flight. Although i think it might well be better done to have it as a separate organisation (charity?) that must live or die on its own two feet. I would see its funds coming from, lets say a yearly grant from the dept, lotto funds, public donations/sponsorship, etc. But it wouldn't be seen to be coming from the same operational funds for the main stream aer corps.

For the record, Im not against having an air corps museum/historical flight. Im only questioning this particular purchase. (Note: 'questioning' does not mean totally against either)

[Silver]

I now regret having started this campaign/topic, as the negative feedback seems to outweigh the positive.

Some people here seem to view the cost of C7 (c.€150,000 or less) as an amount that would have a major impact on the defence budget?!

I 'take my hat off' to the guys who maintained the few old Air Corps aircraft left - as if such negative feedback is emanating from a site devoted to the Air Corps - what chances are there of anybody else being interested in preserving our military aircraft heritage (the little of it that still exist's!) !!


*Silver signs off this topic*

[Fouga23]

Hi Silver
Don't let the negative reactions get you down! I find it a very good idea. The history is too much being looked over these days. What good is the future if you don't treasure your past?

[Tony Kearns]

Silver,
Keep the faith, it really could not come out of the Defence Force budget. Let's concentrate on the alternatives.
Tony K

[Guinness]

What is the possibility of informing the press and try to get the public behind us?

Maybe I'm re-inventing the wheel but just a thought '>

Guinness

[John K]

Hi ho Silver, away! Well speaking as one of the apprentices who 'restored' the Vampire now sitting in the museum, I think that there wouldn't be any skills problems with the techies at Baldonnel keeping the Cadet flying for occasional show and special occasions, nor would there be any problem getting pilots for it. Don't despair, Silver there are people here on your side, it's just that the minority shout louder!

[Historical-avi-irl.i8.com]

I don't really know what's wrong with all of you saying it's not that important- I personally give my full support as the head of The Historical Aviation Society Of Ireland- Website & Online Network, and if you need a group of aviation historians and historical aviation enthusiasts behind your campaign- you know where to ask!!!
Good Luck-