Author Topic: Air Corps Firing Excercises  (Read 1541 times)

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Offline Tony Kearns

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Air Corps Firing Excercises
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2005, 05:53:50 pm »
GTTC,
I recall that a few years ago the Marchettis were all set for firing in the Glen, everything organised until the men in green at the Curragh called it off much to the dissappointment of the AC.I do know that the Fougas were operating in the Glen
but I have no knowledge that they fired. Possibly for familiarisation for ground units. Lug na Quilla is to the left of the Fouga
Photo is Air Corps copyright.
Tony K

Offline P.Doff

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Air Corps Firing Excercises
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2005, 06:16:26 pm »
I remember during recruit training we were attacked by a fouga during our dig in down the Glen. Man was he low, I distinctly remember the grass waving from his jet wash as he came along the field at us.
Theres an NCO's course, a 3* course and new recruits all goin to be down the glen this year so hopfully theyll give them a bit of realism by attacking them with the PC-9's(eh, simulated attack that is!!)

Offline RMR

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« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2005, 07:26:25 pm »
I suppose the fact that the aircraft firing towards the sea has a role in why gormonston is used.Plenty of room for error if something did go wrong.Im not too familiar with the glen myself.As for people walking.the signs clearly state "at your own risk",if people ignore this then the sentries on both sides of ben-head will issue their warning.If someone ignores this and starts being a p***k,givin it all this "public beach" stuff,well i thinks its more of a case that the boys get on the radio and firing is put on hold until said fools are clear. The locals are used to seeing the flag and firing excersises but any strangers to the area might want to have a closer look.With all the new housing developments to the area ive noticed a lot more people using the range area for walking etc,over the years.

Offline 202

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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2005, 10:07:50 am »
The arrangement at Gormanstown is a bit loose: technically its a public beach and there is no absolutel power to stop people from using it.

The situation is different for properties such as the Glen or Kilworth which are in DoD ownership.

Never heard of any air to ground firing at the Glen; intensity of ground exercises and terrain clearance issues might be among the limitations there.

Offline Imshi-Yallah

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« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2005, 09:19:51 pm »
The Glen is realistically too small for live AG firing of most weapons, the Safe Zone around a live fire 500lb bomb drop is somewhere in the region of 8 Kilometres (subject to correction when I talk to my source again), even without the power of that weapon theres not a lot of space in the glen what with the proximity of civilians.

I recall from delving into the An Cosantor Archive at UCD that the Fougas simply made passes over "bangs Areas" on the ground.
For those that don't know a bangs area is a portion of ground with an explosive charge planted in it to simulate artillery or air attack but boundaried well outside the danger radius of the charge.

On the other hand PC-9s could in future avail of all sorts of sophisticated weapons simulation equipment which would let either exercise participants directly or just the DS's know whether a target had been hit or not.




‘The hottest place in hell is for those who are neutral’
Dante Alighieri

Offline 202

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« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2005, 10:12:23 am »
There's a good pic somewhere of a Fouga mock-strafing ground troops at Gormanstown, probably late 1970s.

Offline Silver

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« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2005, 11:49:31 pm »
Thats correct 202. It's in 'A View From The Tower' book. I gave my copy to Frank - perhaps he could post the pic ?

Fouga

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Air Corps Firing Excercises
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2005, 03:44:35 pm »
yes indeed would be nice to see

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Air Corps Firing Excercises
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2005, 03:53:40 pm »
Main reason for not firing in the Glen with the PC9 is the chance of riccochets coming back up into the path of the aircraft. Obviously the bedrock in the hills is not that deep underground and can result in this. Anyone who has watched a .5 firing into supposed bog and seen tracer rounds spinning off into the distance will vouch for this. Supposedly, water is just as bad for riccochets, so I'm not too sure if the PC9 drivers have a specific SOP for firing on the water target in Gormo or if they restrict the .5 firing to the beach target. With the rockets breaking up on impact, there is no chance of them riccocheting if fired from the correct profile. Strangely enough, the arguement to stop firing of the 7.62 and rockets from the Marchetti was based on the possibility of shots falling outside the safety template, but anyone who has done basic marksmanship theory will know that the beaten area of a weapon fired from an elevated position is reduced compared to one fired from the ground. The possibility of a runaway gun was present, but in many cases, the pilot would be aware of this occurring and would keep the nose pointed in a safe direction until ammunition was expended. Ground clearance issues and noise issues were also considered. At the end of the day, it was windiness on the part of the authorities who control the Glen range.

Offline 202

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« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2005, 10:00:51 am »
Informative post, Scorpy and corresponds with some IAC talk that I heard last summer that Gormo would not be used because of ricochet worries, the Glen was out for other reasons, and there was a very real prospect of having to head for the ranges in Wales.  Time is running out in any event for the Gormo range given housing proposals for the old drome so something will have to be done in the medium term to find a range ...

Offline GoneToTheCanner

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Air Corps Firing Excercises
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2005, 07:27:12 pm »
Hi all
It is laughable,really, that they even have to consider going abroad to fire weapons.Does legislation even exist to allow the transit of live weapons from our airspace to theirs?! It is not beyond the combined brainpower of Their Airships to come up with a suitable range(or is it?) Is Kilworth not suitable, given it's use for artillery and anti-tank weapons and it's relatively flat terrain.What did they do when they had 20mm cannon in the Vampires?
regards
GttC

Offline RMR

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« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2005, 07:50:11 pm »
Was there not a firing range in Cork known as D-13.Somewhere between kinsale head and galley head .Open to correction on that one....

Offline John K

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Air Corps Firing Excercises
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2005, 10:25:46 pm »
I remember doing some sort of exercise in the Glen and there were German students and suchlike appearing seemingly from nowhere! So I'd imagine that could be a reason not to have air firing there-it's too open and people have access from too many directions. I also remember as an apprentice they took us down to the Glen one sunday morning  to watch the 155mm guns firing. Years later as a heli crewman we flew the Fwd Air Observer under the shells to see where they landed so he could radio adjustments to be made. Now seeing the hole a 155mm shell makes in the ground and the margin for error as they fire 6 or 7 miles away, God help the German student! I don't know how they manage to make sure the area is clear.

Offline Imshi-Yallah

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« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2005, 01:00:38 am »
We don't have 155s and never have...sadly
‘The hottest place in hell is for those who are neutral’
Dante Alighieri

Offline GoneToTheCanner

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« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2005, 11:06:51 pm »
Hi,John K
I was talking to a hillwalker one day, at Fentons in the Glen, and he told me how he'd done the "Lug" walk whilst artillery firing was going on.He said that the shell-bursts looked "pretty"! I enlightened him about the lethal effects of such "pretty" explosions and how far such shells could travel.He went a little bit pale.Funny that....
In fairness to the range wardens,they can't keep the entire range sealed off every second of every day and hillwalkers can be as wifully stubborn as anyone alse..
regards
GttC