Should the Air Corps get interceptor Jets?

[alpha foxtrot 07]

just proves the point that the defence forces are last on the list of things to do for the goverment.

[Guinness]

FF,  I'm back!!
I was abroad for a while but the booze is back

About the jet....Why not buying the good old Alpha-jet.
They have 2 engines, can be multi-role ( training, air/ground and air-air) are cheap and wil be flying around for decades to come!

What about this guys?

Guinness

[alpha foxtrot 07]

too slow

[Guinness]

AF07,

It will still outrun the PC-9

And Imshi... Honduras AF....no excuse?'>?
What about a political terrible instable situation there?
This country is in war for a long time already ( drug and civil)
so their Goverment needs the airpower.
Most of their aipower is air / ground orientated anyway exept the F-5E/F.
The rest is Helis and some ancient A-37's
The IAC and it's situation is in no way comparible with the FAH. ( Honduras AF).

Guinness

[alpha foxtrot 07]

yea but we are discussing possible intercepter jets not trainers, therfor to slow.

[Fouga23]

the German variant of the A-jet was a light-attack version and therefore no "trainer". they can be purchased overhauled for practicly nothing. Red Bull flies 2 and there are several on the US civil register allready. Some countries bought them for their AF also.

[The Blue Max]

Personally there no reqiurement for a dedicated Intercepter but only for an aircraft that is Multi-role Advanced Lighht Jet Aircraft (ALJA) in form of The EADS MAKO (Being My Preference) as it will when reaches full production stage be at the cutting egde of Light Jets (In my opinion a modern equivilant of The F-5E) The aircraft is very similar to the Pilatus PC-9M which is been designed to be similiar to that of Modern Fighters Such as Typhoon,Gripen etc... So could make for a easy transition for Air Corp Pilots. It would also give the Air Corps a experience on operation maintaing an aircraft which has similiar conponents  to that of other nations etc..
Also The Mako Offers a truely Multi Role Aircraft that can preform many tasks as Advanced Training,Air Defence, Ground Attack and has great choice of modern ordanance for the Aircraft to carry,train and operate with this is my opinion on what i would like to see the IAC operating in the next 5/10 years hopefully...

[John K]

Blue Max, that's some jump from PC9 to Typhoon! I'd agree with most of the other posts, Alpha Jet, Hawk that sort of thing, the RAF can utilise Hawks for local defence, it's potent enough, cost wise it's a lot less than F16s etc. It'll catch most airliners-that's the threat now-and can be used for limited strike attack. And of course as it's a 2 seater, training.

[Fouga23]

Quote (The Blue Max @ 04 Dec. 2005,10:50)

Personally there no reqiurement for a dedicated Intercepter but only for an aircraft that is Multi-role Advanced Lighht Jet Aircraft (ALJA) in form of The EADS MAKO (Being My Preference) as it will when reaches full production stage be at the cutting egde of Light Jets (In my opinion a modern equivilant of The F-5E) The aircraft is very similar to the Pilatus PC-9M which is been designed to be similiar to that of Modern Fighters Such as Typhoon,Gripen etc... So could make for a easy transition for Air Corp Pilots. It would also give the Air Corps a experience on operation maintaing an aircraft which has similiar conponents  to that of other nations etc.. Also The Mako Offers a truely Multi Role Aircraft that can preform many tasks as Advanced Training,Air Defence, Ground Attack and has great choice of modern ordanance for the Aircraft to carry,train and operate with this is my opinion on what i would like to see the IAC operating in the next 5/10 years hopefully...

exept the MAKO is ugly as hell and has yet to make it's first flight. A-jets can do all those things and only cost a fraction of the price. If it has to be a new jet, why not the Aermacchi M-346? on second thought, why are we discussing this? tha AC will never buy new jets '>

[The Blue Max]

Lads first of all i think you most of noy understood my post i never suggested the IAC should but or even think about operating the Typhoon thats a hloe lot of aircraft that we dont need! I simple suggesting that the Mako offers similiar charistics/configuration/ordance capability to that of the Typhoon at a fraction of the price.

 Personally i think the images of the Mako i have seen to date have displayed a modern unique attractive looking fighter im sorry i have to laugh abit at this abit because i never knew that the selection of any possible aircraft in the IAC was like a beauty pagent (im not been cheeky but it remind me of personnal funny story!) Anyways the you are right the Mako has not reached full production status yet and it is unknown when it is this is why in my  previous post that

Quote

The EADS MAKO (Being My Preference) as it will when reaches full production stage be at the cutting egde of Light Jets

Personally up to about three months ago would have loved to seen the Air Corps operate  a version of the modern BAE Hawk Mk126 series (similiar to the ones in service with RAAF/SAAF) but after doing some reseach on this type they dont offer a huge leap from what we already have in are fine Pilatus PC-9Ms though the Hawks offer a great modern selection of ordance/equipment to be carried once these would be loaded the aircraft would find it difficult to preform any from of CAP or other Air Defence duties against any type of fast flying Civilain/Military aircraft and the first being only treat to the state at the momment in regards to terrosism acts etc... Thats why i would not pay that much money for modernise aircraft that date back to sixties and the same would go the like of Alphas and the rest. The M-346 is interesting modern cutting edge aircraft but it shares the similiar capabilties to that of the Hawks (speed etc..) though does not share the same weapons capiliity of the Hawk such as Amraam etc.. Which is important if your going to spend large sums of state money then it should be spent wisely and making strategic purpose that will further inhance are security within and above the state... (I hope i did not some agreesive with this reply and if i did i apo;igise i think all previous ideas are relevant and important and the information i have provided in my mind i believe to be correct but none of us are perfet so i apoligise if i made wrong conclusion or given totally wrong facts)

[Old Redeye]

Any suggestion that Ireland operate fighter aircraft is ridiculous.  There is no requirement, none, zero, zippo.  The fiscal costs would be enormous and the public would be correct to strenuously object.  Just suggesting something so insane would kill any chances of satisfying legitimate, outstanding requirements, including:

1. More battlefield support helos - at least 4 more A-149's.
2. Credible tactical airlift - a C-130J-30 or C-295.
3. CN-235MPA mid-life upgrade
4. new MATS jet - Bombardier Global 5000
5. FW multi-engine trainer/utility - new(er) B200/B350/C90
6. FW utility - two PC-6 or Caravan

At enormous cost, fast jets would contribute little or nothing  to the acknowledged defense priorities of Ireland - domestic support to government and UN approved international operations within the framework fo the EU battlegroup program, with likely partners Sweden and Finland.  The fast jet contribution would be little more than participation in numerous airshows and plane-spotter photo ops while otherwise converting limited funding into jet fumes as they bored pointelessly through the placid skies of ireland.  

Give it up.  Keep your eye on the ball.

[The Blue Max]

Red, The name of the thread is ''Should the Air Corps get interceptor jets'' we all know it is along way off and will be after the signigicant investment in the rest of the fleet be it current or future fleet, personally i cant see anything been done on jet scence till around 2012/15ish as this give adequate time for alot to be done (Aswell as to get to grips with the full potential of the PC-9M) and with rest of the fleet personnally only real next step in Fix Wing operation will either the replacement of the Cessna hopefully with either Pilatus PC-12M or Cessna Caravan Or possible the purchase of Credible Air Tactical Transport (Hopefully in the capable class of the Lockheed Martin C27J Spartan) but amyways till the Day teh Irish Air Corps decides to purchase such aircraft people with interests in Current/Future Irish Military Avaition will continue to discuss the possibility of Jets and the like reentering the IAC and continuing a fine tradition of wearing that famous Panther on there sides...

[Old Redeye]

Blue,

I appreciate your view, but honestly, what possible requirement is there for fast jets in Ireland?  Or "interceptors" as the post asks?  To intercept what or whom exactly?  Why spend a farthing of the hard-earned defence budget on something unnecessary, let alone a huge percentage of any defence budget on something utterly unnecessary?

As for the PC-9's, they are a superb trainer and their purchase was a wise move, but 8 is probably two too many for the training role, and arming them is just an embarrassing fantasy.  Granted, armed PC-9's have some utility as live CAS trainers for troops who may need to work with CAS assets from other countries when deployed, but that's a pretty thin reason.  Deploying troops need to know how to direct precision weapons - LGB's, JDAM's etc., and armed attack helicopters - not fixed wing iron bombs, .50 MG's and rockets.  Better and cheaper to send folks to a real CAS FAC course with EU battlegroup partners Sweden and Finland, or with the UK, NL, Canada, etc.

Yes, the PC-9's would be effective CAS platforms in places like Liberia or the DROC, but only after getting lots of kevlar armor and flare dispensers as a minimum.

[The Blue Max]

You answered your question if you read back over your last post there are several needs for a light fighter jets to be service with the Irisg Air Corps...

1. To defend the state against armed agreesion and
    to maintain integerity of irish soverign airspace
    (Air Defence needs would be in the form of stand too
    aircraft i.e QRA- Quick Reaction Aircraft)

2.  Development of our pilots skills and developing base of
     qualified pilots that can fly the aircraft etc..

3. Develop skills for other ground forces (develope Combat Air Support And Operating Alongside Fast Jats
    in battlefield situation utilizing laser designator etc..)
    and alongside Naval Assets and other airborne assets.

These in my opinion would be some of the main reasons the IAC could expect to operate fast jets..

[Fouga]

Quote (Old Redeye @ 05 Dec. 2005,06:38)

4. new MATS jet - Bombardier Global 5000

Your are having a laugh arent you? We do not need more MATS Aircraft.

If anything our MATS sould stand for
MILITARY AIRLIFT STRATEGIC COMMAND not the other thing we dont need MATS for the Govt they should be using AerLingus, Tony B flys BA so why cant Bertie fly Aer Lingus? Even the President of Iceland uses his national carrier...Rant Over