Fouga Magister

[Fouga23]

hi Guys,
My name is Tim Soetaert, a Fouga nut from Belgium. I am currently writing a book about the Belgian Fouga Magisters. This year we celebrate their 45th anniversary in active service. My book will include a detailed walkaround, but I'm in need of your help for some items. I am looking for good pictures of the 2 guns in the nose and the gunmount. Pictures of the nose with these installed and the cover removed, or pictures of the gunmount/guns on their own. I am also looking for good pictures of the blind flying hood installed in the aft cockpit. I contacted the army PR office and they forwarded my request to the AC PR, but haven't heard from them since. Anyone here who can help me? Also, the AC released a CD-Rom with pictures for its 75th anniversary and some pictures of the guns were included. Anyone here who can get me a copy of that CD? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
greets,
Tim

www.fougamagister.be

[Fouga23]

Forgot to mention: reason I ask here is because the Belgian AF stopped using Fouga's for training in 1978. All armament was removed, so no oppertunity to take pictures nowadays. Today the 10 remaining Fouga's are used by the AF staff to keep their flying license. The IAC used the armament until the 1990's.

[Silver]

Hi Fouga23.

Welcome to the forum !
I may be able to obtain a copy of the CD rom for you. I will be in touch.

Regards,

Silver.

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi Fouga23
Just a bit of gen for you. Our Fougas had the nose with the GPMGs fitted on top of the cone. This was pretty standard for the -2 Magister. The earlier Fougas had the gun-ports at the sides of the cone. Ours used the Belgian MAG GPMG, with solenoid firing, exactly the same as fitted in armoured cars. Curiously enough, we also had a pair of French AAT-52 7.62mm guns, also with solenoid firing. They could only be used as a pair, whereas the GPMGs could be interchanged. They were used rarely and only when the correct number of GPMGs were unavailable. The gunsight was a French simple reflector type. The Fouga could be fitted with a lead-computing gyro gunsight and the throttles were rotated to adjust the ranging ring on that kind of sight. We didn't have any of that kind in the Fouga.
regards
GttC

[Tony Kearns]

GTTC,
I am overwhelmed by you knowkedge and clarity. Thank you for your exlanation. It has added to me lack of knowledge.
Thank you
Tony K

[Fouga23]

Quote (GoneToTheCanner @ 18 Mar. 2005,13:52)

Hi Fouga23 Just a bit of gen for you. Our Fougas had the nose with the GPMGs fitted on top of the cone. This was pretty standard for the -2 Magister. The earlier Fougas had the gun-ports at the sides of the cone. Ours used the Belgian MAG GPMG, with solenoid firing, exactly the same as fitted in armoured cars. Curiously enough, we also had a pair of French AAT-52 7.62mm guns, also with solenoid firing. They could only be used as a pair, whereas the GPMGs could be interchanged. They were used rarely and only when the correct number of GPMGs were unavailable. The gunsight was a French simple reflector type. The Fouga could be fitted with a lead-computing gyro gunsight and the throttles were rotated to adjust the ranging ring on that kind of sight. We didn't have any of that kind in the Fouga. regards GttC

Hi GttC,
the early Fouga's indeed had the gunports on the side. This was only with serial numbers 1-96. From 97 on all Fouga's had the gunports like we all know them now. There is no difference according to the engine used. My english isn't that good. What does solenoid firing mean? From what i saw, the guns were armed hydrolicly? Normally 2 MAC 7.5 (7.62) guns were fitted in the nose. This is the first I hear of 2 different types being used. Do you have any pictures of this? I'm very interested. Also I never heard of the "simple" French reflector gunsight. Pictures are also welcome. The only gunsight I am aware of in the Fouga is the second you mention. The "lead computing gyro gunsight" was a GGS IV gunsight produced under license in France. It is indeed adjusted by rotating the throttles. Normally tis gunsight was standard on all Fouga's produced. You seem to know quite a lot about the Fouga's. Any help is highly appreciated.
greets,
Tim

[Fouga23]

GttC,
Your reply left me with many questions, so I got out my Fouga tech manuals. According to those the gunsight used was the Sadir Carpentier GGS MK IVE with a Sephot type 20 gun camera. If the AC used another gunsight I would be VERY interested to hear more. Same about the guns.
greets,
Tim

[Frank]

Hi Fouga23,

The information below is taken from this thread on IrishMilitaryOnline.com:

Quote

The machine guns are the french AA52 7.62mm (originally chambered for french 7.5mm) They are of blowback type operation and each had a 250 round feed which consisted of 3 ball, 1 tracer and 1 ap. They were hydraulically operated for cocking, recocking and clearing. The Sneb 68mm rocket pods carried 6 rockets.A Mixture of types were stocked (Smk, AP, and APers) They could only be fired when travelling in excess of 150kts.

Just one thing though, on the copy of the Air Corps CD that I had (which I lost during my house move  '> ) I don't recall ever finding / seeing the pictures that are displayed above.  I know when I saw the pictures above first on IMO I searched the CD up and down but still never found the pictures, was there another version of the CD with these pictures that I never saw?


Regards,

Frank.

[Fouga23]

Hi Frank
Yip I saw that thread. You might find some posts of me on that board '> Those images are the reason I'm looking for that CD. I would like the original (high quality) pictures from that CD instead of those screenshots posted on that board. The post stated they were on a CD released for 75 years IAC if I remeber correctly. Actually any picture of the guns are welcome. So if an old Fouga crewchief is reading this, please search our old pictures  '>  Quality doesn't matter. I can use (almost) everything.

[Guinness]

Fouga,

good to see YOU on this board.

Regards and "duivelse groeten"

Guinness

23 devils RULE !!!!!!
( and we'll be back )

[Fouga23]

Wow Guinness!
Nice to see you here '> . It's been a long time. What are you up to nowadays? Haven't seen you on airshows overhere in ages.
23 4 Ever!
Tim

[Guinness]

Nice one Fouga23.

Since 23 Devils are out of the NATO skies I'm not involved anymore.

Great to see you interested in the finest AC on this globe.

Guinness

[Fouga]

Guinness you old crooner!  

Frank i have that CD and those pics are there when i put the CD on il ring you and tell you where to look on the CD when you find it.

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi, Fouga23 et al
Our Fougas had just a simple sight.It was a reflector type, without any "gyro" or lead-computing.It could not be adjusted for range, even though the throttles did have the adjusting grips on them.The sight is physically quite small, about the same size as the one fitted to the Marchettis.I don't have any pictures but I do know that the "proper" Gyro Gunsight was about twice the size and had a normal and standby sighting reticle."Solenoid" means that the gun is fired electrically. The infantry gun(either the AAT-52 or the GPMG) had it's butt replaced with a stub containing the recoil spring and a solenoid was fitted to the trigger.The pistol grip, bipod/tripod fittings and post sights were removed at manufacture.The same gun could fit the external gun-pods or into Panhard M3 APC gun-turrets without modification.I don't remember if they had disintegrating link bullet belts or not, but I believe the empties were collected in the stowage bins under the guns. The gun-mount on the Fougas was attached to the top of the nose undercarriage structure.
Incidentally, did 3-KE have top gunports or side gunports? I seem to remember the nose cone lying about, looking rather faded and battered.
regards
GttC

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi all
One more bit of gen....the plastic cover (in Frank's pics)fitted under the nose cone of the rocket pods was made of fibreglass and was frangible, that is,it could break very easily and was fitted to the pods for Fouga use.It prevented the rockets being blown backwards out of their tubes at high speed.The rocket, when fired, would burst the fibreglass as it left the tube.This didn't apply to the slower aircraft.
regards
Gttc