Author Topic: Life after the PC-9M's  (Read 1104 times)

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Fouga

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Life after the PC-9M's
« on: April 03, 2005, 10:06:42 pm »
Just popped into my head i know it's a fair distance away but if you can just stick with me here ( coughs ) what do you think we may see in the next part of the Air Corps fixed wing inventory as part of the modernisation of the force? It's a bit of a shock that we are getting UAV's that is why i am posting this thread. thanks im already ducking for cover..
 ':p'

Offline Head

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« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2005, 10:44:47 pm »
With the supprising changes that have happened over the last couple of years, I truely believe that the Air Corps are/will be heading towards a modern style "Airforce" within the next 10-15 years. I can see them operating either jet aircraft, be it the Hawk/F-16/Tornado or some form of attack type helicopter, AH64/Tiger(I know, I know) ':<img:'>

Anyway, its looking really good for the Air Corps at the moment, PC-9's, AB139's and of all things UAV's, which is in dire dire contrast to only 3-4 years ago.
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Offline FiannaFail

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« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2005, 11:43:25 pm »
All these developments reflect Mnister O'Dea's strong support for the development of the IAC.  There will be more developments to come!
FiannaFail '<img'>
Patricia Guerin

Offline Irish251

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« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2005, 12:12:25 am »
I can't see the Air Corps getting any equipment whose use cannot be directly linked to a clear operational need, so interceptors or AH-64/gunship types seem "Alice in Wonderland" stuff to me unless the traditional "peacekeeping" role is to be ditched in favour of something more robust.

The Tornado is actually in the process of gradually being replaced by its principal users and is of course a 1960s/1970s design - in any case what the IAC would ever need such a type for is beyond me.  Nuclear strike, airfield attack or anti-shipping missions are, I think, I bit beyond our foreseeable requirements!

I'd love to see the IAC with some serious equipment and the recent visits here of Austrian C-130s should have given some people food for thought.  At least there would be some rationale for a transport and maybe enhanced patrol/rescue capability and the Austrians are unlikely to have had to pay "top dollar" for these airframes, which though built in the 1960s have been well-maintained and must be good for many more years' service.

It's interesting that the USA has hundreds, nay thousands, of surplus military aircraft in storage in the Arizona desert which in many cases are available to friendly nations - even Iraq is getting some at the moment.  Yet Ireland always opts for small quantities of brand-new equipment when perhaps it could have greater numbers of less sophisticated aircraft - say, 10-15 UH-1s ( a battle-proven classic, still in service in large numbers with the US forces) instead of the new but relatively unproven AB-139s - food for thought???

Offline FMolloy

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« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2005, 01:40:52 am »
I'd say the next aircraft purchase will be a cessna replacement, hopefully by a bigger & more capable type (defender or caravan?). After that, some sort of tactical transport (C-295 or C-27 most likely) but I'd say there'd be a big gap between the two.
D'oh!

Offline Head

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« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2005, 02:35:32 am »
The PC-9 is one of the better choices the Air Corps has made over the last few years, but what gets me is what real purpose do they serve? Why have a lead-in trainer that essentially goes nowhere, the training can only go so far, then what? I cant see them ever being deployed overseas, fair enough we might not nead fighter aircraft that is why i suggested combat type helicopters which could be deployed with our forces.

Dont get me wrong I love the PC-9's its great to see them nearly everyday and with the AB139 its gonna be even better so let the good times roll.....

I live 5 mins from Baldonnel and growing up I used to watch the silver swallows practice all the time which was great or training circuits with the "government" jet followed by a couple of sf260's then in the afternoon the swallows would go up, great times. Anyone remember the marchettis during night flying? Why is that not done anymore?
It has been disheartening to watch the Air Corps over the years struggle to survive on what they are given. Its a viscious cycle, when they get decent equipment they have no choice but to use them for years and years on end and then they get run down. At this point the mentality strikes me as "right lads there ye go 8 PC-9s, no more, they might be replaced in 30-40 years time if your lucky" and when that time comes we will probably end up with an updated Hawk or Similar which we should have got in the first place, ie now. A couple of C-130/295's should be purchased in the future along with a few more 139's. I still have nightmares about the phrase "bare minimum"  '<img'>
 
But we are making progress.... ':cool:'




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Fouga

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« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2005, 12:31:25 pm »
Quote (Short finals @ 03 April 2005,15:12)
The Tornado is actually in the process of gradually being replaced by its principal users and is of course a 1960s/1970s design -

The same can be said for the Eurofighter

Offline GoneToTheCanner

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« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2005, 08:06:40 pm »
Howya,Head
Don't forget that huge amounts of money have been spent on the Don's infrastructure, upgrading the many ancient buildings and the roads,etc. It has made the regular Army green with envy when they see the modern buildings in the Don compared to the WW-1 era buildings they continue to operate from.If the Don can find the money to return a hangar from a "condemned" state to being suitable for PC-9s, then one can't state that the place is starved of resources.As for keeping aircraft in service for decades, well,what's wrong with that? The taxpayers' money has to be spent wisely and better air forces than ours tend to keep their aircraft in use for decades, to justify their huge cost and to keep some kind of a credible force available.
regards
GttC

Offline Silver

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« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2005, 09:28:31 pm »
I'd agree with FMolloy - most likely cessna replacements next, followed by one or two transport aircraft.


As for "Why the PC-9 ?" question......

I recall reading that the GOC/Air Corps wanted -

"an aircraft that could be used for training, light strike, and which would allow pilots be up-to-date with modern technology (i.e. headup display, ejector seats, video flight recording, etc etc) - AND would allow pilots transition to fast jets within a short period if an emergency situation warranted this".

So what other aircraft would fit these criteria as well as the PC-9 ?

Offline davedublin

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« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2005, 08:39:57 pm »
i just wonder why do we bother buying trainers at all? surely our money would be better spent on actual fighting machines, either surplus AH-64s or F-16s? both are available, as for training, no matter how things go, we have a very small training requirement, therefore i thinkl we should avail of somebody else facilites, i am sure we could negotiate a 'by the  hour ' rate with somebody, perhaps the brits or the dutch/belgiums, which would provide us with combat pilots , at a very realistic price

Offline Imshi-Yallah

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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2005, 08:58:36 am »
*Sigh* is it that time of year already?





 ':p'
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Offline futurepilot

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« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2005, 09:48:00 am »
Quote (davedublin @ 06 April 2005,20:39)
i am sure we could negotiate a 'by the  hour ' rate with somebody, perhaps the brits or the dutch/belgiums, which would provide us with combat pilots , at a very realistic price

That reasonable price would still be well above what the Air Corps could afford. It costs millions to train a single fast jet pilot.

Fouga

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« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2005, 05:20:00 pm »
4 years to train a RAF pilot before he even gets into a Tornado

Offline Fouga23

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« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2005, 05:26:06 pm »
Quote (davedublin @ 06 April 2005,11:39)
perhaps the brits or the dutch/belgiums, which would provide us with combat pilots , at a very realistic price

now that's a good one '<img'>  All our alpha-jets moved to france to train our pilots and I don't think our Marchetti's will last long anymore. their are rumours to contract basic training to civil schools.
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Offline GoneToTheCanner

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« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2005, 11:00:27 pm »
Hi all
My 2c worth: train pilots to a minimum CPL level at a civvie school.It'll save a packet and the potential failures will be weeded out early on.Give 'em the kind of structured "Oxford" course, then add in the basic jet training on a Citation and then give em a go on the PC-9 for the gunnery and tactical use of aircraft.If they want to fly choppers, skip the jet bit and stick them in R44s for 50 hours before giving them a turbine rating.Keep it simple, stupid and you'll graduate 90% of your candidates instead of 45% and you'll have pilots who haven't cost the earth to train and therefore, more money to spend on explosives and jets.If it's good enough for the USAF,blah,blah.....
regards
GttC